[pclayton]

IMPs, short matches

Scoring: IMP

---

You are dealer.

I'm going to put a pass in your mouth. You are playing a 12-14 NT and 2/1. This hand really doesn't qualify for an opening bid, so you pass. I hated it too, especially since the pair at the other table will certainly open it, as they play a strong club. But thats not the issue.

LHO passes too and pard opens a "Trent" style weak 2♥ in 3rd (7-12 HCP, some outside defense. 2♦ shows the 'bad' weak 2 with 3-7 and sometimes a 5 bagger). RHO passes, you pass. LHO reopens with 2♠, pard competes with 3♦ and RHO tries 3♠.

Do you hit it?

This post has been edited by pclayton: 2006-March-22, 14:11

[JohnnyH7]

The spade spots are weak, and I only have 2 tricks in my hand. I don't think this is worth a X.

[awm]

Opposite a "normal" wide-ranging weak two I think pass is pretty clear. But partner's promised some defense. It seems like we have about half the values, and opponents have only an 8-card fit with a 5-0 break. They're vulnerable, and I think 500 is quite possible here. So I'll double.

[cherdano]

I would think partner's voluntary 3♦ should show adequate playing strength, and probably good suits. This seems enough to score a lot of tricks on defense, either by ruffs or (more likely) by a forcing defense. I double.

Arend

[mike777]

opposite a Full Trent 2 bid this is a clear double!
Trent 2 bids are basically Al Roth style weak 2 bids.
Partner is allowed to bid again btw.

[hrothgar]

The answer to this depends an awful lot on partnership style. More specifically, whats the difference between the following bids:

1. A 1♦ opening
2. A 2♦ openings that makes a free rebid of 3♦
3. A 3♦ opening

Given that I don't play these methods, I'm hesitant to make a specific reply.

At the table, I'd take some action.
However, I'm not sure if I would double or bid 3NT.

[pclayton]

hrothgar, on Mar 22 2006, 11:51 AM, said:

The answer to this depends an awful lot on partnership style. More specifically, whats the difference between the following bids:

1. A 1♦ opening
2. A 2♦ openings that makes a free rebid of 3♦
3. A 3♦ opening

Given that I don't play these methods, I'm hesitant to make a specific reply.

At the table, I'd take some action.
However, I'm not sure if I would double or bid 3NT.

1♦ opener - Rule of 22 usually; 11+ if unbalanced; 15-19 if balanced.

1♦ then 2♦ - minimum; 6-7 losers usually

3♦ opener. Especially in 3rd seat at green, can be wide ranging but also very light. I would say a middlish hand would be KJ-6th and out.

(sorry! just noticed I wasn't specific about pard's opening bid. It was 2♥).

Original post edited.

[han]

I think I'm hitting this. I say I think because at the table I'm usually not brave enough.

[inquiry]

Partner took two bids all by himself? I have five trumps, two quick tricks, a useful diamond jack and maybe an even more useful ten of club? I double.

[jdonn]

Hannie, on Mar 22 2006, 03:30 PM, said:

I think I'm hitting this. I say I think because at the table I'm usually not brave enough.

Funny you should say that since I'm the opposite. I can never resist doubling at the table with hands with long trumps like this that I know on paper aren't really worth a double.

Seriously, I think pass is really clear, for a number of reasons.

-Your spade spots are bad, and really you have few surprises for declarer notwithstanding the 5-0 break.

-Vulnerable opponents are NOT insane, even when it looks like they are bidding that way. That is free advice directly from Hamman. When the opponents are vul and you are not, they tend to not be stepping out of line.

-Partner is a minimum in highcards. You know this since the 3D bid surely must be 6-5 (to bid in front of you with 6-4 would be terrible), and with that shape you might open a one bid with as little as nine to avoid the risk of missing game.

-Partner may not make the lead you want. He doesn't know about the heart ace and might lead a club with something like KJ and A in his suits, or might misguess to lead a diamond from KJxxxx Kxxxx in his suits.

-Your hand will be opened at the other table you said, keeping the opponents out and putting these cards in a heart partscore. That means if the opponents are down at least two, you already have a small plus position. It's not as though you think your teammates are in the same predicament and you think doubling is necessary to keep pace.

-If you double and you're wrong, there goes the match. If you pass and doubling was right, you probably gain on the board anyway.

[Kalvan14]

Double. No hesitation. I'm sure I can force them in either hearts or diamonds.
500 is almost certainly there (but 200 is in the bank)

[pclayton]

Oh I wanted to double, but I passed, on the "hey we are just trying to Q" mentality. The complete hand:

Scoring: IMP

---

With the K♦ lead, we painlessly took 1♦, 2♥, 1♣, the A♠ and a long ♠ (after the tap).

+200 ain't bad right?

At the other table the bidding went (our teammates were silent): 1♠ - 1N - 2♣ (2+) - 2♦ (Bart) - 2♥ - 4♥. The hand with KQxxx, xx, Ax, Jxxx led a trump! -450! Unlucky for us the club honors were out of the opening leader's hand.

Lose 6

I don't think EW were lunatics, but I thought the balance and (especially) the raise were agressive.

I think one of the reasons you play Trent weak 2's are for situations like this. I don't know that pard's hand is unusual, or the layout of the EW hands is unusual.

But we've only been playing the Trent's for about a month, so we are still getting used to these competitive auctions.

[mike777]

as I suggested partner can bid again over 3sx with a void...If she assumes the vul opp are not crazy she might find a bid of 4D, not easy or clear. We might bid 4H if we trust the opponents with our hand. Good Hamman comment.

All in all a great post thanks Phil.

[jdonn]

pclayton, on Mar 22 2006, 05:43 PM, said:

Oh I wanted to double, but I passed, on the "hey we are just trying to Q" mentality. The complete hand:

Dealer: South Vul: E/W Scoring: IMP

♠   ♥ KJTxxx ♦ KQxxx ♣ xx ♠ KQ9xx ♥ xx ♦ Ax ♣ Jxxx ♠ JTx ♥ Qxx ♦ xxx ♣ AKxx ♠ A7xxx ♥ Ax ♦ J9x ♣ QTx

With the K♦ lead, we painlessly took 1♦, 2♥, 1♣, the A♠ and a long ♠ (after the tap).

+200 ain't bad right?

At the other table the bidding went (our teammates were silent): 1♠ - 1N - 2♣ (2+) - 2♦ (Bart) - 2♥ - 4♥. The hand with KQxxx, xx, Ax, Jxxx led a trump! -450! Unlucky for us the club honors were out of the opening leader's hand.

Lose 6

I don't think EW were lunatics, but I thought the balance and (especially) the raise were agressive.

I think one of the reasons you play Trent weak 2's are for situations like this. I don't know that pard's hand is unusual, or the layout of the EW hands is unusual.

But we've only been playing the Trent's for about a month, so we are still getting used to these competitive auctions.

3S was INSANE. In any case you were in line to gain 6 imps untill your teammate made a lousy lead, which I think only reinforces that doubling isn't necessary even when it works. There are a number of rearrangements that give them their bids where they make or come dangerously close. Here are a couple:

KQ98x
xx
Axxx
Jx

JTx
Qxx
x
AKxxxx

(Diamond lead, D ruff, AC, KC, C ruff, D ruff, C etc etc, they make 10!!! tricks)
or

QJTxx
x
xx
AJxxx

K98
Qxxx
Axx
Kxx

(Diamond lead holds, D won by ace, trump ducked, C, C, C, C ruff high etc etc. There are variations but certainly you don't want them to be doubled)

I still for the life of me don't see why the hands couldn't be either of those two (wildly different from each other) constructions, indeed those are far more likely than the actual layout. You lost imps because of the other table, not yours.

[Free]

I would pass, but I'm not familiar with 'Trent' bids... Could well be the wrong choice. I thought it should be 6-4 or 6-5, so I don't see an immediate 5 tricks to hit 3♠ well enough.

[Salokin]

pclayton, on Mar 23 2006, 02:17 AM, said:

IMPs, short matches

Scoring: IMP

---

You are dealer.

I'm going to put a pass in your mouth. You are playing a 12-14 NT and 2/1. This hand really doesn't qualify for an opening bid, so you pass. I hated it too, especially since the pair at the other table will certainly open it, as they play a strong club. But thats not the issue.

LHO passes too and pard opens a "Trent" style weak 2♥ in 3rd (7-12 HCP, some outside defense. 2♦ shows the 'bad' weak 2 with 3-7 and sometimes a 5 bagger). RHO passes, you pass. LHO reopens with 2♠, pard competes with 3♦ and RHO tries 3♠.

Do you hit it?

Scoring: IMP

---

could part have something like:

Scoring: IMP

---

then i have a pretty good 4H, and even if beating 3S, which is not
sure, will not get s the game bonus.
And Partner could be 6/5 or sometimes Oppos bid up to 4S.

Salokin

[whereagles]

It's not surprising that 4♥ is on opposite a trent two. Still, axing 3♠ is mandatory: after the trent bid the hand is ours, period. It can go wrong, of course, but the alternative isn't pass: it's 4♥.