[jtfanclub]

hotShot, on Feb 2 2007, 05:41 AM, said:

So i think that I would bid 4♥ (if i trust partner a lot i might bid 4♦).

Interesting...my logic is exactly the same as yours, which is why I pass.

I think we're looking at a two-suiter from hell, some kind of 7-1-0-5 distribution with the spades headed by the king-nine, maybe. If they bid 4♠, they're going to make it. I'm not going to give them a double-shot of "if we make 4♠, I need to bid it. If they make 4♥, I'm need to bid it". No siree, Bob. I pass smoothly, and pray that's where we play it. At this point, going for a mere -170 looks like a good thing. If I had....

xx
Axx
Axxxx
Qxx

I would seriously consider FIVE hearts (or five diamonds if I trust my partner) if they bid 4 spades, but I'm still going to see if I can just let the auction die now.

[microcap]

Very fascinating-- I did exactly the same as JT at the table---then Rex was annoyed with me for not doing as hotshot suggests. I will finish the story later for everyone.

[mikeh]

I may be allowing my knowledge of what opener held for the 2♥ bid to influence my call here: but I think that we should be bidding 4♦.

Anyone with a pulse will know that 4♦ is a ♥ raise with long ♦s: it is impossible for it to mean anything else, given that I am a passed hand.

While one should not bid 4♦ anticipating or even catering to 5 cards in opener's hand, it does make sense on two-levels.

One if to clue partner into the fact that our 4♥ raise (which 4♦ is) is based on a good hand... not just moderate values and ♥ length. We have amaximum pass. The second is to set the stage for a 4 or 5 level decision. 5 card length is surprising: 4 card length is not what we expect, but it is not 'weird' to find it... and if opener is, for example, 1=6=4=2, we probably don't want to be defending 4♠... but if he is 3=6=1=3, we do. 4♦ informs him. An informed partner is a happy partner.

[whereagles]

I'm not sure I'd bid over 3♠ 100% of the time, but if I were to, mikeh's 4♦ is clearly the technically correct bid. Let's thank RHO for allowing us such a descriptive bid when he could have shut us off with a 3♠ opener.

[sswarnendu]

Hi All......
Since opps are silent,i can expect 7-8 ordinary points from my p....i want them in the red suits....but i think trying to find how the hand fits is risky.......opposite a passed p,missing slam is unlikely,but not at all impossible.....(opposite ♦A & K,♣ A....slam is playable;opposite ♦AJT & ♣A...slam is on any one of the finesse winning;♥K,♦KJT ♣A....again playable;
2♥ is an underbid because it does not convey the message of slam interest immediately which i think is the only real reason for thinking about opening 1 level on this hand on 4th seat....2♥ does promise opening value on 4th seat....but this hand is far bigger than an opening hand....
But looking for a (hard to bid,unlikely)slam is not enough reason to risk missing out many a making game....I am a strong believer of "Rule of 15" on 4th seat...since i have a ♠void....i need 15 hcp to open 1 level....
I wont mind going -2 or +2 on this hand on a 4♥contract....but can not tolerate opponents playing & making(very likely as i have very few quick tricks & almost no useful defensive value)some number of ♠s...........i'd open 4♥.......if my p complains about the bid after the game,then next time i'd pass on this hand....still if she complains.....i'll find a new p then.... .......

[sswarnendu]

Assuming the auction p-p-p-2♥-3♠-?.........i think 4♦ is Absolutely correct....by a passed hand...this bid can not be anything other than Fit-showing,4♥ is less descriptive,4♦ can help p a lot on a 5 level decision........pass & 4♥,both are bad choices.....but however,may be quite common choice....

[sswarnendu]

An interesting question comes to my mind.....i polled for a 4♥ opening....what if RHO comes with 4♠???what's ur bid with this is a real question? .......
what a pass would imply & what should a Double imply??
You hold
Dealer: East
Vul: E/W
Scoring: IMP

♠ Q5
♥ K72
♦ KJ1072
♣ Q98

[microcap]

What happened was this--- RHO was dealt A876432 of ♠ and opted not to pre-empt with such a bad suit first hand red vs white. He had a change of heart after the 4th seat 2♥ opener.

I confess I didn't think of the 4♦ bid at the table--Rex would have. Obviously, that would have uncovered the double fit.

Opps made 4♠ and truth be told, I wasn't unhappy about only being minus 170.

In the other room, it went 3♠, Pass, 4♠, now 5♥!! passed out making, and we lost 12 imps.

Here is the full hand:

Scoring: IMP

---

i guess the way I summarize it, any hand that can enter the 5 level opposite a passed hand and make a contract shouldn't be limiting itself on the opening bid!!

[mike777]

wow another 7-4 hand that makes 4s...if we open that in first seat

Where are Richard and Ron when we need them

[jtfanclub]

microcap, on Feb 2 2007, 05:05 PM, said:

In the other room, it went 3♠, Pass, 4♠, now 5♥!! passed out making, and we lost 12 imps.

If hearts split 3-1, they make 5 spades. If the diamonds split 2-1 with the A as part of the doubleton, 5 hearts goes down. Both of those seem to me to be over 50%.

You got unlucky, but I still claim that 3♠ making 4 isn't a bad place to be. Once they bid 4♠, I think there's a good argument for 5♦, but I'm not going to sacrifice if I don't have to (I didn't expect it to make).

[HeartA]

I am surprised that this hand is on poll and not get 100% vote for 1H opening (at any seat).

[dogsbreath]

Hi David..

I've seen what ypu guys open on .. hard to believe 2nd hand passed

Rgds Dog

[Echognome]

jtfanclub, on Feb 2 2007, 02:17 PM, said:

If hearts split 3-1, they make 5 spades. If the diamonds split 2-1 with the A as part of the doubleton, 5 hearts goes down. Both of those seem to me to be over 50%.

You got unlucky, but I still claim that 3♠ making 4 isn't a bad place to be. Once they bid 4♠, I think there's a good argument for 5♦, but I'm not going to sacrifice if I don't have to (I didn't expect it to make).

On the other hand... 5♦ is cold by either hand.

No one has mentioned it, but isn't 4N the better call over 4♠ if it's at that level when it reaches North?

[rimjhim]

The presence of the diamond suit would prevent me from opening 2H with this in 4th chair. I would open 1H and hope I can find a fit in either H or D. If needing a swing in the match, I might pass -- this has merit due to the lack of Spades.