Dreaded Cheating Accusations
#1
Posted 2004-January-27, 16:52
These have been "world class" players (their designations) making these and it is frankly getting "old". Just because someone doesn't see the logic to the defender's (or declarer's) play doesn't mean there isn't damn good logic involved to begin with. These incidents have been increasing again of late and I feel strongly that BBO should implement a policy of immediately banning people who do it.
I hear daily of this happening to people and it's creating even more hostility on the site. Sure, we all know some cheating happens, and sometimes its even obvious. But that doesn't give people the right to bring out the "cheat" card everytime someone makes a good play and the accuser merely failed to spot it. I repeat, this should be a BANNABLE offense. I personally am getting sick of it.
#2
Posted 2004-January-27, 17:06
Mike
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”
#3
Posted 2004-January-27, 17:23
#4
Posted 2004-January-27, 17:36
A cheating accusation is a large step forward towards being banned.
#5
Posted 2004-January-27, 18:03
As an aside. If the play you made was "cheating", then i would be labelled cheater too because it is the correct play on that hand. Oh, and if you hadn''t played as you did, you would have ended up transposing the plays... your side would take two ♥'s, then get ♣A and ♣ruff. Just stupidly silly to compain about this. A world class player would have left partner's penalty double in.. and set you rather than the other way around.
Ben
#6
Posted 2004-January-27, 18:33
The reason I put this on the board is that the FREQUENCY is increasing. I see it personally on an almost-daily basis and I hear of it every day.
People have got to stop this. It's a horrible practice and BBO and the rest of us must act to discourage this.
As to Freee's comment... I, for one, usually have several kibbitzers. If someone is going to accuse me of cheating in front of often more than 20 people I do not want that person at my table. That is how rumors get started... I for one ABHOR cheaters and don't want that taint anywhere near me.
After I have booted someone for making the accusation I always tell the entire gallery and table that I will not tolerate someone accusing me of cheating. I have a reputation to maintain and part of that includes some amount of integrity I hope. Nothing can bring that down faster than a cheating accusation and I will not tolerate it.
#7
Posted 2004-January-31, 23:26
#8
Posted 2004-February-01, 05:01
#9
Posted 2004-February-01, 14:16
#10
Posted 2004-February-01, 17:28
#11
Posted 2004-February-02, 04:42
About cheaters: one of the easiest way is to analyze same person play, thanks to "My hands" database. In my opinion in BBO they are few. When I meet posible cheating at table I ask about director and note about unusal play or bids. Later I look that person boards in "My hands" and soon the "picture" is clear, at least for me. Next step is avoiding to play against same person. When I must play against him, because of tourney, I am just very careful... But I will never say to somebody, that he is cheater!!! To do same against possible fair man is bigest mistake! And may be worse than cheating, because can ruine nice person... I think
same accusation must be interpret by "yellows" like any other restricted rudeness!
Misho
#12
Posted 2004-February-02, 07:14
Easy to prove
1. is falsebidding or alerts, missleading opps
2. Leads , unlogical leads , might happen , but not too many unlogical but always correct , I ve seen spectacular leads but correct of course :)
3. dont leading P suit ?? if it happens a lot , they have an agreement that should be alerted ,
hard to prove
1. hard bad correct bidding
2 always correct finesses and from top when correct, I watched one play from top and singel K falls with an 8 cards fit, and no reason to do it.
3 declaring against % but correct
IMO this is BBO biggest problem, cheaters dont only destroy for opps , I know a lot of players that says they never trust a pair from a certain country:(, thats tragic , I know personally a lot of good players from that country, cheaters destroy for all of us !!!!
I had to give up as Yellow because of this , esp when some other yellows say they dont care. As I strongly believe that accepting cheating will increase the number of cheaters, a lot of pairs will cheat as they see they dont have a chance if they dont do it and why do some advanced players level them self as beginners ??
The more incitament we give for winning a tourney the more cheating we will have.
Maybe tourneys where dancing or dating is more important then bridge is the only way ??
And should it be up to our poor TD:s to judge cheating ??
Bo
#13
Posted 2004-February-02, 09:24
Instead, if you strongly suspect someone of cheating, report it to abuse@bridgebase.com. It might help if you include a few hands to support your allegations. DON'T tell all your buddies that your think player A or player B cheats, no matter how strong your belief that they do. It would probably help if you sent along "evidence" in the form of links to myhand pages of hands which you believe cheating occurs (and be fair, if there are hands in same event that prove they must not be cheating, then don't bother reporting them).
And as noted by STEVE in the original post in this thread, don't thow out random you must be cheating accusations at the table (essentially in public). If you do, the person getting in trouble is likely to be you rather the suspected cheater.
Ben
#14
Posted 2004-February-02, 10:06
I have quit directing any tourneys but TopFlight due to the ongoing and apparent cheating in BBO tourneys. It was a giant source of frustration for me to watch people do some of the obvious things they were doing and have so little power to stop it.
The best I could do was blacklist those I was pretty sure of from future tourneys and that would be the end of it.
The problem with tourneys is there are so many ways people can cheat (particularly in clocked events). The fact so many people were so willing to do it openly left a bad taste in my mouth quite frankly.
Now, with the advent of ACBL-sanctioned tourneys on BBO coming, this problem I fear will only worsen. I was an ACBL-certified director (no longer... my time ran out) and was asked by some of the other directors here if I wanted to direct some of these new sanctioned ones. My response was "I saw so much cheating when there wasn't anything at stake that I just cannot fathom the amount of cheating that will now go on; I want no part of this." His response to me was "Hey, you know they cheat, at least you'll be getting paid for your efforts"
I think anyone here who directs and is a tourney-experienced player sees what I saw. The problem is that so much of it is "unprovable" that you just have to accept it as part of the online game... Or, you can do what I did. Principles are a tough thing to live with, but I am not sorry I have mine.
#15
Posted 2004-February-02, 11:31
But if you spend all your time worrying about the cheaters, you will not enjoy the game as much as you should. Come to the BBO to have fun, to sharpen your own skills, to try out new conventions, to meet old and new friends. I see much to much emphasis on this person or that person cheats. When directing tournments, I have had only two people reported to me as "cheating." In one case, after reviewing myhand records, in my opinion the allegation was well founded and I sent the evidence to the abuse site, along with a dozen example hands I had found. In the other case, it was abundently clear from examining the hands of the partnership in question that they were not cheating (again in my opinion). Unlike Misho and Steve, I don't have a list of players I think cheat... just the one player, but it is probably because I don't look for cheaters. I worry about what I am doing and what lessons I can learn from each hand. Catching cheaters and worrying about if I am plus 2 imps for the day or minus 2 imps is not something I am interested in. I am always looking for the next interesting hand or trying out whatever new toy I am using.. current new toys are meta overcalls ala Misho, new minor by opener forcing, and mixed drury/2=1GF after first and second seat opening bids.
Ben
#16
Posted 2004-February-02, 12:07
Bo
#17
Posted 2004-February-02, 12:21
However, since yellows have the power to ban, yellows must walk carefully.
Do you think BBO should (all based on a small set of hands)
a) Suspend a player who might be cheating ?
or
Suspend a player who is probably cheating?
or
c) Suspend a player who is almost definitely cheating?
My current philosophy is "Innocent until proven guilty".
It is harder to prove that someone is cheating than one might think.
Yes, you might "know" that someone is cheating, but I think we should *know* someone is cheating before acting.
What is the answer? I don't know. My way, we let some (probable) cheaters remain online to cheat. More aggressive pruning would (probably) wind up suspending some innocent players.
#18
Posted 2004-February-02, 12:34
Recently I defended as EAST with the following hand...
The opening lead was the ♠2 (fourth best) and when dummy played low, I did too. Declarer won the ACE and continued the ♠Q, I ducked again. After strugglng a while (he could still make it with lucky guesses), declarer went down and accused me of cheating for not playing the ♠K at trick one. But any bridge player can see that playing the KING can't win even if partner has ♠AQ as declarer always wins a trick, and can lose (as in this case)... I mean there sits the ♠JT-fourth in dummy for all to see. That isn't cheating.. dummy is after all exposed to all.
So I fully support the concept that the evidence has to be overwhelming before banning a player. But if after review you THINK he is cheating (rather than suspect or know), maybe someone should have a talk with the player in question.
Ben
#19
Posted 2004-February-02, 13:31
That is the nature of on-line bridge and the cheating that goes on with it. Sure, we all have witnessed players sitting at a table in the Main Lobby area who have played a number of hands in a fashion that seems improbable and we suspect they are getting information from a friendly kib or have a phone going. I'm sure that has happened to me on several occasions but I also know there isn't much one can do about it except keep an eye on him or her and see if it continues.
But, the stuff in tourneys is "different" because it encompasses so much more and is so much tuffer to prove. Ya, I "know" so and so rejected a valid claim cuz time was running out but I can't report it to BBO because there is no way to prove these things beyond a reasonable doubt. So, when I was directing open tourneys I just blacklisted everyone that I was pretty sure was pulling this kind of crap.
I did report a few to abuse due to extraordinary behavior that went beyond the realm of bad taste, but the reports weren't for cheating per se (altho I'm sure the behavior was meant to skew results and ruin the outcome). And, some of the people did get banned (and, thank Goodness, haven't returned that I know of).
But, to repeat from earlier, I saw enough "bad stuff" during my directing that I certainly was no longer interested in doing it. I couldn't resolve the personal conflicts it created within me, since I abhor cheating and knew that tourneys were fostering it (and other kinds of absurd behavior) that I just never saw before tourneys were instituted here.
#20
Posted 2004-February-02, 15:16
Mike
so much the better. If there is restlessness, I am pleased. Then let there
be ideas, and hard thought, and hard work.”