[Raivis]

Remember? All red.

You seat at West and hold -/AKTxx/KQxx/KQxx.

North opens 2S - weak, 6+ and partner bid takout double.
RHO preempt to 4 spades.

Your bid?

[hrothgar]

Raivis, on Dec 10 2007, 04:30 PM, said:

Remember? All red.

You seat at West and hold -/AKTxx/KQxx/KQxx.

North opens 2S - weak, 6+ and partner bid takout double.
RHO preempt to 4 spades.

Your bid?

Depends a lot on my agreements.

I'd like to be able to start with 4N and then rebid 5♠ after partner shows me a suit. I'm going to use whatever methods I have to focus on strain.

[pclayton]

Jlall, on Dec 10 2007, 05:38 AM, said:

I would drive it to 7, probably start with 5S along the way or 4N then 5S whatever. I'm going to 7 just gonna look for the right suit.

7? You mean 8 isn't an option with this hand?

[whereagles]

yeah, 7 should be on. hard to see how pard dbled without the minor suit aces...

I'd try 6♠.

[ArtK78]

You actually need more than just the minor suit aces to make 7, but partner rates to have it.

Since this is Board No. 13, it doesn't matter what you do. The cards will change to thwart you no matter what you choose. If you stop at 6, partner will have everthing you need to make 7 in any of 3 (or 4!) strains. If you bid 7, they will have a ruff to beat you if you are not off a natural trick.

And, if you defend, they will make!

So I suspect that it doesn't matter what you do, you are doomed!

[neilkaz]

I'm in a Grand here unless PD somehow lacks a minor suit ace.

[Raivis]

Like it whereagles thinking sequence!
We think that same!

Partner has both minor aces! Otherwise no values for t/o double.
But one problem still.

Why suit play as trump at level 7?

[FrancesHinden]

I like 6S as well. It tells partner at once that we are playing a grand, and just asks where.

[FrancesHinden]

I agree that we want to play a grand, but finding the right suit is not easy. Whether we bid 4NT, 5S or 6S, partner is likely to bid his lowest biddable suit. So with, say,

x
QJx
AJ10xx
A10xx

he's going to bid clubs which is the third best strain.


For that reason I will bid 5S, because it gives him room to bid 5NT if he doesn't have a strong opinion about which suit to bid.

[Walddk]

FrancesHinden, on Dec 11 2007, 11:53 AM, said:

I agree that we want to play a grand, but finding the right suit is not easy. Whether we bid 4NT, 5S or 6S, partner is likely to bid his lowest biddable suit. So with, say,

x
QJx
AJ10xx
A10xx

he's going to bid clubs which is the third best strain.


For that reason I will bid 5S, because it gives him room to bid 5NT if he doesn't have a strong opinion about which suit to bid.

If that is what he has for his double, I see no reason why he can't have

A
QJxx
AJ10x
J10xx

Would anyone pass over 2♠ with that hand? Give him one spade more and one card less in one of the minors and it's still a double. Maybe not in the BBF as a problem, certainly at the table.

I like 5♠, but for a different reason. With the hand above I hope he will bid 5NT to tell that ♠A is among two aces altogether. With two outside the spade suit he should bid 6♠. Maybe that is wishful thinking, but worse is a direct 6♠ that commits us to a grand even when we are off one cashing ace.

Roland

[FrancesHinden]

That would be a nice agreement - 5NT as 'natural' - but I don't have it in any of my partnerships (mainly because the auction has never come up...)

[whereagles]

Roland, how is pard supposed to know he should bid 7 with the minor suit aces? This is a hand where it pays to be practical. I know it because I've managed to play cold grands in 6 several times

[Raivis]

OK.

6♠ - good bid!

But .....

Partner answer 6NT.

[Raivis]

6NT means redirect back choise of trump suit!

[ArtK78]

Walddk, on Dec 11 2007, 05:49 AM, said:

If that is what he has for his double, I see no reason why he can't have

A
QJxx
AJ10x
J10xx

Would anyone pass over 2♠ with that hand?

Yes.

It is very tempting to double 2♠ (and I suspect that well over 90% of the posters in this Forum would do so) but it is not that great a double. At best, it is bare minimum.

Pass is not unreasonable.

I suspect that I would double 2♠ also. But I have a bad feeling about it.

If the hand were 1444 and the ♠A were a low spot and either of rounded suits were headed by the A, it would be a much better double.

[Raivis]

Mdaaa!

No one immediately bid 7H?

Partner shows more than only simple takeout double!
Partner shows as minimum Fxx in hearts and both minor aces!

5-10 seconds i'm counted both minor aces, heart support and easy bid 7H!

Only 2 pairs of 16 stop in right contract.
For more players last bidding box column is a dream!

4NT, 5S (also 6S) only arguing your partner with identical minor suits.

Thanks all for advantage!

Takeout hand - Kx/Qxx/AJxx/AJxx.

[helene_t]

Raivis, on Dec 11 2007, 10:21 PM, said:

6NT means redirect back choise of trump suit!

Yes, the scrambling 6N convention, comes up all the time.

[Raivis]

Helen, what convention you use if part bid 6S and you have similar minor suits?

[nige1]

Raivis, on Dec 10 2007, 08:30 AM, said:

Dealer: LHO Vul: Both Scoring: IMPS?

♠   ♥ AKTxx ♦ KQxx ♣ KQxx

(2♠) _X (4♠) ??

IMO 6♠=10. 7♥=9, 5♠=8, 4N=7, 6♥=6, _X=4.

Raivis, on Dec 11 2007, 03:21 PM, said:

Dealer: LHO Vul: Both Scoring: IMPS?

♠   ♥ AKTxx ♦ KQxx ♣ KQxx

(2♠) _X (4♠) 6♠ (_P) 6N (_P) ?? 6N = You choose

IMO 7♥=10. 7♣=5, 7N=2
Raivis is to be congratulated on having an agreement about 6N in this sequence