[gnasher]

What does 4♦ mean in this auction:

  1♠  2♥
  3♦  3♥
  3♠  4♦

If the system matters, assume 2/1.

PS The title of this thread isn't intended to constrain anyone's answers. In fact, I look forward to reading Ken's suggestion.

[kenrexford]

IMO, both sides have 6-4, and they have a diamond fit.

IMO, 4♣ would be the sole spade cuebid available (a "general" cuebid, saying nothing specific to clubs, just generally a "strong 4♠" bid.

[y66]

I play that opener is promising 5 diamonds. Expect him to have 6 spades there but he could have 5 and a hand that doesn't want to give up on 3N if responder has running hearts and a club stop.

I think 4D=diamonds, usually 4.

[jdonn]

kenrexford, on Oct 4 2008, 07:58 AM, said:

IMO, both sides have 6-4, and they have a diamond fit.

IMO, 4♣ would be the sole spade cuebid available (a "general" cuebid, saying nothing specific to clubs, just generally a "strong 4♠" bid.

I agree exactly.

[pclayton]

jdonn, on Oct 4 2008, 03:30 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Oct 4 2008, 07:58 AM, said:

IMO, both sides have 6-4, and they have a diamond fit.

IMO, 4♣ would be the sole spade cuebid available (a "general" cuebid, saying nothing specific to clubs, just generally a "strong 4♠" bid.

I agree exactly.

Yep. 4♣ would be a vague cue for a major by the way.

[P_Marlowe]

Cue, showing values.

After 3S, we play NT, hearts or spades, but never
diamonds.

As it is 3H denied a 4 card diamond suit, if partner
has support for me, he better showes the support
at once, or bury the support.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[NickRW]

P_Marlowe, on Oct 6 2008, 10:58 AM, said:

As it is 3H denied a 4 card diamond suit, if partner
has support for me, he better showes the support
at once, or bury the support.

Why should responder show ♦ support at once? Even playing basic Acol where 2♥ only showed 9+, the 3♦ rebid is forcing - why suppress a 6 card major that can be shown cheaply leaving us the option of showing diamonds later?

Nick

[FrancesHinden]

The system does matter.

Playing 2/1, I think 4D is a cue for spades; with diamonds responder would have raised 3D.

Not playing 2/1 I think 4D is more tempting as a natural call. The difference is that, in 2/1, opener usually won't bother bidding 3D unless he means them. That means that responder can raise freely with a slam try and a fit. In an Acol-type system, opener is forced to bid 3D on 5242 type hands with 16+ HCP just to set up a game force, and now it's more likely that responder wants to save up raising them.

In my 2/1 partnership 3D shows 5 diamonds.

[P_Marlowe]

NickRW, on Oct 6 2008, 09:21 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Oct 6 2008, 10:58 AM, said:

As it is 3H denied a 4 card diamond suit, if partner
has support for me, he better showes the support
at once, or bury the support.

Why should responder show ♦ support at once? Even playing basic Acol where 2♥ only showed 9+, the 3♦ rebid is forcing - why suppress a 6 card major that can be shown cheaply leaving us the option of showing diamonds later?

Nick

Simple answer: It will simplify the auction.

Partner has shown 9 cards in spades and diamonds,
espesially, if 2S would have been forcing, which may
not be the case playing Acol, since in this case opener
may have been forced to invent a bid, for what ever
reasons.

Opener is first of all interested to know, if responder has
a fit for his suits, because he may want to investigate a
slam, which is not unlikely since 3D showed add., strength,
so make life easy show support.

I hate it, when we reach the 4 level without clear
understanding which suit was set as trumps.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[NickRW]

P_Marlowe, on Oct 6 2008, 02:36 PM, said:

Partner has shown 9 cards in spades and diamonds,
espesially, if 2S would have been forcing, which may
not be the case playing Acol, since in this case opener
may have been forced to invent a bid, for what ever
reasons.

I would never invent a 3♦ rebid. At least if you're playing a weak NT, opener must have 5 spades if weak and may repeat them as only 4 have been promised up to now.

I agree that opener can be a difficult position if playing a stronger NT with 4 card majors - but that is a naff system to my mind - or certainly is naff if responder is allowed to make 2 level forcing responses on 9 counts.

Nick

[ASkolnick]

I would say

"Forward going (denying club), I'll tell you later where we belong". 4H may be a better contract against a stiff honor

1-6-3-3 (no club stopped)
1-6-4-2

[gnasher]

FrancesHinden, on Oct 6 2008, 03:28 PM, said:

The system does matter.

Playing 2/1, I think 4D is a cue for spades; with diamonds responder would have raised 3D.

Not playing 2/1 I think 4D is more tempting as a natural call. The difference is that, in 2/1, opener usually won't bother bidding 3D unless he means them. That means that responder can raise freely with a slam try and a fit. In an Acol-type system, opener is forced to bid 3D on 5242 type hands with 16+ HCP just to set up a game force, and now it's more likely that responder wants to save up raising them.

In my 2/1 partnership 3D shows 5 diamonds.

That argument seems most applicable if 3♦ shows a reason to bid diamonds but not necessarily five. If you go to the extreme of promising five diamonds with 3♦, doesn't it become attractive to use a delayed 4D to show 6-3 in the reds?

[ArtK78]

If you like extremes, suppose responder held 7-4 in the reds, with excellent hearts and 4 small diamonds. Are the "raise immediately with 4 card support" posters still going to bid 4♦ over 3♦?

To me, 4♦ is natural.

[fred]

For me 3D means "maybe we belong in diamonds".

IMO trying to cater to the rare hands with 4-card diamond support which did not raise diamonds on the previous round is not practical.

Much more likely that responder has a hand with 3 diamonds and wants to suggest that perhaps that suit should be trump.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com