BBO Discussion Forums: Cue bid or 6-4? - BBO Discussion Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Cue bid or 6-4?

#1 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2008-October-04, 04:03

What does 4 mean in this auction:

  1  2
  3  3
  3  4

If the system matters, assume 2/1.

PS The title of this thread isn't intended to constrain anyone's answers. In fact, I look forward to reading Ken's suggestion.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#2 User is offline   kenrexford 

  • Brain Farts and Actual Farts Increasing with Age
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,586
  • Joined: 2005-September-21
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Lima, Allen County, North-West-Central Ohio, USA
  • Interests:www.limadbc.blogspot.com editor/contributor

Posted 2008-October-04, 06:58

IMO, both sides have 6-4, and they have a diamond fit.

IMO, 4 would be the sole spade cuebid available (a "general" cuebid, saying nothing specific to clubs, just generally a "strong 4" bid.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
0

#3 User is offline   y66 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 6,496
  • Joined: 2006-February-24

Posted 2008-October-04, 07:14

I play that opener is promising 5 diamonds. Expect him to have 6 spades there but he could have 5 and a hand that doesn't want to give up on 3N if responder has running hearts and a club stop.

I think 4D=diamonds, usually 4.
If you lose all hope, you can always find it again -- Richard Ford in The Sportswriter
0

#4 User is offline   jdonn 

  • - - T98765432 AQT8
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 15,085
  • Joined: 2005-June-23
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, NV

Posted 2008-October-04, 17:30

kenrexford, on Oct 4 2008, 07:58 AM, said:

IMO, both sides have 6-4, and they have a diamond fit.

IMO, 4 would be the sole spade cuebid available (a "general" cuebid, saying nothing specific to clubs, just generally a "strong 4" bid.

I agree exactly.
Please let me know about any questions or interest or bug reports about GIB.
0

#5 User is offline   pclayton 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 9,151
  • Joined: 2003-June-11
  • Location:Southern California

Posted 2008-October-04, 18:02

jdonn, on Oct 4 2008, 03:30 PM, said:

kenrexford, on Oct 4 2008, 07:58 AM, said:

IMO, both sides have 6-4, and they have a diamond fit.

IMO, 4 would be the sole spade cuebid available (a "general" cuebid, saying nothing specific to clubs, just generally a "strong 4" bid.

I agree exactly.

Yep. 4 would be a vague cue for a major by the way.
"Phil" on BBO
0

#6 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,250
  • Joined: 2005-March-18
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2008-October-06, 04:58

Cue, showing values.

After 3S, we play NT, hearts or spades, but never
diamonds.

As it is 3H denied a 4 card diamond suit, if partner
has support for me, he better showes the support
at once, or bury the support.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
0

#7 User is offline   NickRW 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,951
  • Joined: 2008-April-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sussex, England

Posted 2008-October-06, 08:21

P_Marlowe, on Oct 6 2008, 10:58 AM, said:

As it is 3H denied a 4 card diamond suit, if partner
has support for me, he better showes the support
at once, or bury the support.

Why should responder show support at once? Even playing basic Acol where 2 only showed 9+, the 3 rebid is forcing - why suppress a 6 card major that can be shown cheaply leaving us the option of showing diamonds later?

Nick
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
0

#8 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

  • Limit bidder
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 8,482
  • Joined: 2004-November-02
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:England
  • Interests:Bridge, classical music, skiing... but I spend more time earning a living than doing any of those

Posted 2008-October-06, 08:28

The system does matter.

Playing 2/1, I think 4D is a cue for spades; with diamonds responder would have raised 3D.

Not playing 2/1 I think 4D is more tempting as a natural call. The difference is that, in 2/1, opener usually won't bother bidding 3D unless he means them. That means that responder can raise freely with a slam try and a fit. In an Acol-type system, opener is forced to bid 3D on 5242 type hands with 16+ HCP just to set up a game force, and now it's more likely that responder wants to save up raising them.

In my 2/1 partnership 3D shows 5 diamonds.
0

#9 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 10,250
  • Joined: 2005-March-18
  • Gender:Male

Posted 2008-October-06, 08:36

NickRW, on Oct 6 2008, 09:21 AM, said:

P_Marlowe, on Oct 6 2008, 10:58 AM, said:

As it is 3H denied a 4 card diamond suit, if partner
has support for me, he better showes the support
at once, or bury the support.

Why should responder show support at once? Even playing basic Acol where 2 only showed 9+, the 3 rebid is forcing - why suppress a 6 card major that can be shown cheaply leaving us the option of showing diamonds later?

Nick

Simple answer: It will simplify the auction.

Partner has shown 9 cards in spades and diamonds,
espesially, if 2S would have been forcing, which may
not be the case playing Acol, since in this case opener
may have been forced to invent a bid, for what ever
reasons.

Opener is first of all interested to know, if responder has
a fit for his suits, because he may want to investigate a
slam, which is not unlikely since 3D showed add., strength,
so make life easy show support.

I hate it, when we reach the 4 level without clear
understanding which suit was set as trumps.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
0

#10 User is offline   NickRW 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 1,951
  • Joined: 2008-April-30
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sussex, England

Posted 2008-October-06, 08:57

P_Marlowe, on Oct 6 2008, 02:36 PM, said:

Partner has shown 9 cards in spades and diamonds,
espesially, if 2S would have been forcing, which may
not be the case playing Acol, since in this case opener
may have been forced to invent a bid, for what ever
reasons.

I would never invent a 3 rebid. At least if you're playing a weak NT, opener must have 5 spades if weak and may repeat them as only 4 have been promised up to now.

I agree that opener can be a difficult position if playing a stronger NT with 4 card majors - but that is a naff system to my mind - or certainly is naff if responder is allowed to make 2 level forcing responses on 9 counts.

Nick
"Pass is your friend" - my brother in law - who likes to bid a lot.
0

#11 User is offline   ASkolnick 

  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Full Members
  • Posts: 385
  • Joined: 2007-November-20

Posted 2008-October-06, 08:59

I would say

"Forward going (denying club), I'll tell you later where we belong". 4H may be a better contract against a stiff honor

1-6-3-3 (no club stopped)
1-6-4-2
0

#12 User is offline   gnasher 

  • Andy Bowles
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 11,993
  • Joined: 2007-May-03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 2008-October-06, 09:54

FrancesHinden, on Oct 6 2008, 03:28 PM, said:

The system does matter.

Playing 2/1, I think 4D is a cue for spades; with diamonds responder would have raised 3D.

Not playing 2/1 I think 4D is more tempting as a natural call. The difference is that, in 2/1, opener usually won't bother bidding 3D unless he means them. That means that responder can raise freely with a slam try and a fit. In an Acol-type system, opener is forced to bid 3D on 5242 type hands with 16+ HCP just to set up a game force, and now it's more likely that responder wants to save up raising them.

In my 2/1 partnership 3D shows 5 diamonds.

That argument seems most applicable if 3 shows a reason to bid diamonds but not necessarily five. If you go to the extreme of promising five diamonds with 3, doesn't it become attractive to use a delayed 4D to show 6-3 in the reds?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
0

#13 User is offline   ArtK78 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 7,786
  • Joined: 2004-September-05
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Galloway NJ USA
  • Interests:Bridge, Poker, participatory and spectator sports.
    Occupation - Tax Attorney in Atlantic City, NJ.

Posted 2008-October-06, 10:45

If you like extremes, suppose responder held 7-4 in the reds, with excellent hearts and 4 small diamonds. Are the "raise immediately with 4 card support" posters still going to bid 4 over 3?

To me, 4 is natural.
0

#14 User is offline   fred 

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Advanced Members
  • Posts: 4,599
  • Joined: 2003-February-11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Las Vegas, USA

Posted 2008-October-06, 10:56

For me 3D means "maybe we belong in diamonds".

IMO trying to cater to the rare hands with 4-card diamond support which did not raise diamonds on the previous round is not practical.

Much more likely that responder has a hand with 3 diamonds and wants to suggest that perhaps that suit should be trump.

Fred Gitelman
Bridge Base Inc.
www.bridgebase.com
0

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users