[gwnn]

Axxxx
xx
QTx
Axx

All white imps we deal+pass, partner opens 1♠, we try drury, he tries 2♠ (minimum hand).

p-p-1♠-p
2♣*-p-2♠-p
?

[pclayton]

3rd seat openers can be pretty sick, and this hand is chock full of losers.

Pard has already said he wouldn't make a game try. I would expect a good 8 to a bad 12 across the table, and a 4 bagger is very likely considering we have no texture ourselves .

Here's the nuts: Kxxxx, Axx, AJx, xx. Game is good, but if you weaken this a little, game starts to look worse. And there are plenty of hands that the 3 level is unappealing, like KQJx, Qxx, xx, Kxxx

All white I'll pass. I've lost 6 IMPs before.

[rogerclee]

Pass.

[helene_t]

I used to bid 3 or 4 and haven't had good results with it. I'll pass this time.

[Apollo81]

I'd raise to 3♠. I like the aces, the 5-card trump support, and the ♦10, despite the (5332) shape.

[peachy]

I will Pass 2S. We might only have a 9-card fit and there is no way to know whether the Qx is pulling any weight. Two aces are nice but that is not enough for game opposite known minimum or subminimum. If I want to gamble on side fit and ten tricks, I bid 4S and hope! But I would never bid 3S. If 2S is our limit and we go down in 3S, the result will just stop partner from opening light with me in the future.

[mr1303]

If I feel the need to bid again after this sequence, I shouldn't have used Drury in the first place.

[han]

That sounds really smart Mark but is it?

What if you played that 2NT shows both minors and 3-level bids are fit jumps. And if 2C is the only strong raise you have available, and you have a passed hand that has just become a sound opener when partner opened your suit? Wouldn't you bid Drury in those circumstances and bid on after partner signs off? I would.

Not on this hand though.

[jdonn]

Close one, it might depend on partner, but overall I would bid on. Kxxxx xxx Kxx Kx is a 2-1 and a finesse, but obviously game is worse if one of the honors is in hearts instead, so I will bid 3♦ (unless it means something else of course).

The comment that "if I feel the need to bid on I shouldn't have used drury in the first place" is simply wrong to me, what else should one use if no other appropriate raise is available? I do agree it's not very common to bid on, I would say there is no hand good enough without either five card support or shortness with four card support.

[mikeh]

I pass

I think that there is more chance that either 3♠ will fail or that, if he bids it, 4♠ will fail than that we will reach a making 4♠, even if partner is on the same wavelength concerning any game try I make... and note that a game try in diamonds might well help the defence avoid a losing lead.

I disagree with Josh.. this isn't a close call to me. That doesn't mean that I think that game cannot make....obviously it can, but it is against the odds, especially at white at imps.

[Cascade]

Like many questions I think you are asking the wrong question or not giving enough information.

The real problem is how light do you open in this particular partnership. And then the secondary question is what is the range for 2♠. I mean it is fine to say that it is a minimum but does that mean 11-13 or does it mean 8-12 or what?

With five-trumps and two bullets I would prefer to make a normal limit raise than use Drury and then partner will solve your problem for you. Even if that means getting to at least 3♠.

[TimG]

gwnn, on Oct 20 2008, 05:40 AM, said:

All white imps we deal+pass, partner opens 1♠, we try drury, he tries 2♠ (minimum hand).

Does this mean a minimum opening bid or a hand that would not have opened but for being in 3rd seat (NV)?

[Cascade]

pclayton, on Oct 21 2008, 03:02 AM, said:

3rd seat openers can be pretty sick

I am curious ...

... what do you think is the minimum expectation in an expert but not regular partnership? (perhaps limit this to North American expert if you think that it varies by region)

[rogerclee]

I would expect most people to open 1S with KQTxx and a K. However that hand is pretty much moot since the opps are cold for game if that is what he has. It is weird that the opps have remained silent, I expect partner has a 4 card suit and some 11 count or something. I would pass.

[whereagles]

I'll raise to 3, which should pretty much show close to what I have. Opps are silent, which hints at pard having an ok min (like 10-11 hcp). That makes bidding slightly safer.

Bidding is risky, but I still got something in reserve... It would be chicken/lazy not to make one final try.. (and go down in the proces..? lol)

[pclayton]

Cascade, on Oct 20 2008, 01:08 PM, said:

pclayton, on Oct 21 2008, 03:02 AM, said:

3rd seat openers can be pretty sick

I am curious ...

... what do you think is the minimum expectation in an expert but not regular partnership? (perhaps limit this to North American expert if you think that it varies by region)

About 10 years ago, a lot of the 8-11 hands with 5 (and a fair suit) were loaded into the weak 2. One bids with a 4 bagger were about a decent 10-13 or better with a rebid and a chunky suit.

Now the trend seems to have the weak 2 quite often be very close to the traditional definition but with an occasional five bagger thrown in.

I guess people have no fear crawling in over a weak 2 but since a one bid can be so wide-ranging, they are a little more trepidatious.

Roger's definition of KQTxx / K is reasonable. I would also open KQJx / K.