[sathyab]

You can find reasonable arguments for both actions.

You have ♠Kx when you could have had x. Nothing wasted in ♥ and a couple of Tens. Any minor suit cards in partner's hand will be really useful.

On the other hand, this is still a minimum. Your ♦ holding doesn't look as good with the overcaller on your left.

[gwnn]

I think the only reasonable arguments you enlisted were for 4S. And you forgot good control count

[cherdanno]

Wow, I am supposed to downgrade AQT4 because my LHO overcalled in a different suit?

[Echognome]

Two is the worst number of hearts. Other than that, everything seems to be working. So seems clear to bid game here.

[ArtK78]

My hand could be a lot worse than this.

4♠.

[Jlall]

4S fo sho

[olliebol]

4 spades, if this is a no play game partner is gambling with 3 sp and i dont think
he is here.

[Fluffy]

If partner has 3 hearts he will think our 2245 is the most likelly distribution. But anyway go for 4♠ cos the honnors are in the right places.

Of course if your general opening style is very sound this is a pass.

[andy_h]

Yes I definitely raise.

[sathyab]

cherdanno, on Aug 26 2009, 01:58 PM, said:

Wow, I am supposed to downgrade AQT4 because my LHO overcalled in a different suit?

You have to look at your hand in the context of the bidding. Had LHO preempted 2♥ and partner bid an invitational 3♠, I'd be a lot happier to bid 4♠. On the other hand, had the bidding gone 1♣-(p)-1♠-(3♥)-p-(p)-3♠-(p), I would pass as the minor suit honors may not all be working.

[cherdanno]

sathyab, on Aug 26 2009, 10:11 PM, said:

cherdanno, on Aug 26 2009, 01:58 PM, said:

Wow, I am supposed to downgrade AQT4 because my LHO overcalled in a different suit?

You have to look at your hand in the context of the bidding. Had LHO preempted 2♥ and partner bid an invitational 3♠, I'd be a lot happier to bid 4♠. On the other hand, had the bidding gone 1♣-(p)-1♠-(3♥)-p-(p)-3♠-(p), I would pass as the minor suit honors may not all be working.

You have 12 hcp. Partner around 10. That leaves 9 on average for each opponent. The 1♥ overcall says LHO has 8+hcp, and more likely they are in hearts than anywhere else. (In fact, given this is non-vulnerable at MP, I know some opponents who would bid 1♥ with only 6 hcp, if all of them are in hearts!) RHO has also promised a few hcp, and not as many of them on average in hearts.
This really doesn't change all that much about diamonds.

I think you are really way off if you want to downgrade your [D] holding here so much that you are considering passing 3♠.

[Cascade]

12 HCP none of which are badly placed in the opponent's suit. Partner has values so there is no reason to be pessimistic about the rest of my hand. And I have a fit for partner. Therefore an easy raise to 4♠.

[cicus]

A normal hand for partner: AQ10xxx, xxx, xx, Ax, and I am sure game is odds-on.

[mcphee]

no brainer raise

[bid_em_up]

sathyab, on Aug 26 2009, 10:11 PM, said:

cherdanno, on Aug 26 2009, 01:58 PM, said:

Wow, I am supposed to downgrade AQT4 because my LHO overcalled in a different suit?

You have to look at your hand in the context of the bidding. Had LHO preempted 2♥ and partner bid an invitational 3♠, I'd be a lot happier to bid 4♠. On the other hand, had the bidding gone 1♣-(p)-1♠-(3♥)-p-(p)-3♠-(p), I would pass as the minor suit honors may not all be working.

Partner made a free bid when he did not have to (1♠), and made a jump rebid when he did not have to (3♠). We should infer that partner has at least 6 spades. We know his spades aren't "solid" as we are looking at the king so he should have additional values. Those additional values are unlikely to be wasted in hearts, making all of our cards working. This should make the game better than 50% (and probably higher).

Not raising to 4♠ with this hand at IMP's is a losing strategy.

(However, I suspect partner had a better call than 3♠)

Edit: People still play matchpoints? The above was written with IMP play in mind. I still think it is losing strategy at matchpoints as well, just not quite as strongly.

[cicus]

bid_em_up, on Aug 27 2009, 09:50 AM, said:

Not raising to 4♠ with this hand at IMP's is a losing strategy. 

You can't be wrong when the vast majority of voters bid 4s even at MP's.

[Phil]

cherdanno, on Aug 26 2009, 10:26 PM, said:

sathyab, on Aug 26 2009, 10:11 PM, said:

cherdanno, on Aug 26 2009, 01:58 PM, said:

Wow, I am supposed to downgrade AQT4 because my LHO overcalled in a different suit?

You have to look at your hand in the context of the bidding. Had LHO preempted 2♥ and partner bid an invitational 3♠, I'd be a lot happier to bid 4♠. On the other hand, had the bidding gone 1♣-(p)-1♠-(3♥)-p-(p)-3♠-(p), I would pass as the minor suit honors may not all be working.

You have 12 hcp. Partner around 10. That leaves 9 on average for each opponent. The 1♥ overcall says LHO has 8+hcp, and more likely they are in hearts than anywhere else. (In fact, given this is non-vulnerable at MP, I know some opponents who would bid 1♥ with only 6 hcp, if all of them are in hearts!) RHO has also promised a few hcp, and not as many of them on average in hearts.
This really doesn't change all that much about diamonds.

I think you are really way off if you want to downgrade your [D] holding here so much that you are considering passing 3♠.

While its a mathematical fact both opponents hold an "average of nine" its a little misleading. They won't rate to have 9 + 9 a lot of the time. With some 9's, RHO has a limit raise. So is much more likely LHO is 10, 11 or 12 or even 13. And its very unlikely LHO has 8 and RHO 10. Perhaps its truer that LHO holds an average of 11 and RHO hols an average of 7.

If 4♠ is on a finesse, this alone is a good argument to pass, but this is only one element of the pass or go calculation.

I thought it was close between pass and 4♠, but like 4♠ only because the hand looks pure and there is no wastage, in spite of the diamond 'issue', the dub heart and the form of scoring.

[Echognome]

I don't understand the diamond "issue" at all. What makes diamonds more special than clubs given the bidding?

For me, the two counter arguments against raising to game are dub heart and MP scoring (trying to protect the plus). But partner knows the form of scoring too and is suggesting we try for game. With a marginal invite, it's quite likely partner would bid 2♠ only (we haven't shown him any support). So with no apparent wastage, seems clear enough to me to raise.