[TylerE]

N: ♠AKxxx ♥Axx ♦Axx ♣ xx
S: ♠Qx ♥Jxxx ♦QJxx ♣KQx

MP

South deals and passes, North opens 1♠, south bids 1NT, and it goes float, +150

Edit: Fixed auction

[maggieb]

North should bid again, since he would prefer to play 2♠ instead of 1N if partner takes a preference, and he would also accept a game try by partner.

[akhare]

Assuming South's bid was 1N, South should respond 2♦ (if that isn't drury) or 2N (shouldn't be Jacoby 2N).

You can also make the case for N to open 1N, but 1♠ seems right with this hand..

[Codo]

Any blame is resulting. Both have maximum and game makes with some good breaks. What a surprise.

[pooltuna]

TylerE, on Dec 7 2009, 11:14 PM, said:

N: ♠AKxxx ♥Axx ♦Axx ♣ xx
S: ♠Qx ♥Jxxx ♦QJxx ♣KQx

MP

South deals and passes, North opens 1♠, south bids 1NT, and it goes float, +150

Edit: Fixed auction

system at fault since it doesn't allow you to open 1NT with a 5 card major. This assumes of course that this is within your 1NT range. Not being a big, weak NT fan I am curious how the weak NTers handle this type of hand? Do they just suck it up and pass partner's 1NT call(assumes not forcing) or do they go out on a limb with 2NT. Assuming a forcing 1NT what do they do over partner's 2♠ preference?

[suokko]

In weak NT system 1NT is more limited so you can't bid it with hand that would force game facing strong NT.

[pooltuna]

suokko, on Dec 8 2009, 11:48 AM, said:

In weak NT system 1NT is more limited so you can't bid it with hand that would force game facing strong NT.

I presume then that as a consequence 2/1ers cannot be weak NTers too?

[nigel_k]

I think North is too much good to rule out game and should bid 2♦ and pass a 2♠ preference. The South hand is a bad 11 but I think it's still too good to just give preference and should bid 2NT or 3♦ over 2♦. Responder sometimes needs to overbid a little in these situations otherwise the range of 2♠ is too big to handle sensibly, and there is some protection here as opener could have passed 1NT with a bare minimum opening.

You can play 2/1 with a forcing NT response to 1H/S and a 12-14 1NT opening (though it's not that common) so I don't agree with suokko's comment. I'd prefer not to play weak NT in 3rd/4th seat but if I did, the auction would go the same as I suggested above. I just don't agree you need to open a strong NT with North to reach game here.

[Phil]

Tricky but North cannot pass 1N. What is to prevent South from having ♥KQxxx and another card where 4♥ is gin? Missing 3N should be a concern. I think its reasonable to play pass - 1M - 1N - 2N to show this hand type.

I realize that many systems have problems with pass - 1M - 1N - 2x, since 2x can be a nice hand like the one given or a hand that is running from 1N.

Hands like this are harder than they look, and I hope the partnership had some productive discussions about how to avoid hands like this in the future.

[jdonn]

I hate to be the one to say it...

SAYC is a bad system!

[kenrexford]

suokko, on Dec 8 2009, 11:48 AM, said:

In weak NT system 1NT is more limited so you can't bid it with hand that would force game facing strong NT.

What?!?!?

A lot of weak notrump systems (most?) use a forcing 1NT response.

[ArtK78]

There is no way that North can pass the 1NT response even in SAYC.

South's 1NT response is a bit heavy, so he must take some of the blame. I don't know what a 2NT response by a passed hand should show (other than the fact that it usually makes me throw up), but if it is natural then this is the hand for it.

[gnasher]

Phil, on Dec 8 2009, 09:57 PM, said:

I think its reasonable to play pass - 1M - 1N - 2N to show this hand type.

I've seen this suggested before, but I don't understand how it can be playable.

Playing these methods, do you still bid pass-1M;1NT on hands in the 5-7 range? If so, you're likely to go down in 2NT a lot of times. And what does opener do when he has a balanced 17-18?

[jdonn]

I also don't think a 2NT rebid on such a weak hand is really playable. If you are not going to open 1NT, don't want to pass the 1NT response, and don't play some sort of artificial 2♣ rebid, then there is really no reasonable choice beyond rebidding a 3 card minor.