[andy_h]

Asking for a friend:

You're South in 3rd seat at r/r and you hold:

Scoring: IMP

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Partner opens 1NT (14+-17) and RHO overcalls 2♥ showing hearts (plus minor? would it matter?). Pass or double, and why? If you pass, what do you need to change in order to double/3♥?

[gnasher]

I definitely wouldn't double. Partner's allowed to pass that with four reasonable hearts. I'd try 2♠, to encourage LHO to compete to 3♥, which we may be able to beat.

Another alternative is to compete to 3♦, again mainly in the hope that they'll compete to 3♥. This is, incidentally, one of the few ways that Lebensohl gains over Rubensohl: if LHO has good diamonds but mediocre clubs, he may compete to 3♥ immediately without waiting to find out what my suit is. Since I don't particularly want anyone to know what my suit is, the ambiguity of Lebensohl is quite beneficial.

[aguahombre]

As usual, Andy gives nice logic for his action and predicts what will probably happen. Leben will almost assuredly make LHO act. And it will take away 2NT conventional from the opps.

Trouble is that they have a big heart fit, most likely --and LHO has shortness in the minor RHO has (if HTS + minor). If we have a fit this hand will play and break badly for us, vulnerable. They will probably do very well in hearts and overbid to a makeable game if pressured. I think I will leave them alone If o/c hand is a two suiter, and only mess with them (via Leben) if RHO is just showing hearts.

[wclass___]

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I'd try 2♠, to encourage LHO to compete to 3♥

What? Well, how can you know that? You have Jxxx in ♠...

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3♥ which we may be able to beat.

If LHO can bid 3♥, parter is very likely to support. He will know that you are short in ♥+he will have some ♠ honors say AQx. But i really can't stomach 4-3 fit, not this time. Parter will just overbid his hand. Lack of one trump is very crucial this time and you have jack-high suit.
Small target, but very high risk.

If you bid 2N leb, LHO can obviously bid direct 3♥, but he will do it only with nice hand, when they are likely to make. He may as well pass and bid 3♥ next turn. Very small target, still high risk.

I will pass in this round

[Jlall]

It's always bothered me that I can't double with this hand. For a while the conventional wisdom was that you should promise a doubleton for this double, now I think most people have moved towards you can have a singleton, but the conventional wisdom is still that you cannot double with this hand.

Anyways, I dunno, I also like partner to be able to pass happily with 4 reasonable hearts as Andy said, so it is just too risky to double. I would probably just have passed but I think 2S is a pretty cool bid.

[whereagles]

I'm gonna double. If pard passes that, he must have his reasons

[gnasher]

wclass___, on Dec 5 2009, 07:25 PM, said:

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I'd try 2♠, to encourage LHO to compete to 3♥

What? Well, how can you know that? You have Jxxx in ♠...

I don't "know" anything, and I didn't say I did. I want LHO to compete, and I hope he will do so, but whether he does so or not depends upon his hand.

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If LHO can bid 3♥, parter is very likely to support. He will know that you are short in ♥+he will have some ♠ honors say AQx. But i really can't stomach 4-3 fit, not this time. Parter will just overbid his hand. Lack of one trump is very crucial this time and you have jack-high suit.
Small target, but very high risk.

There is some risk of partner competing to 3♠ when it's wrong, but "very likely" seems an overstatement. He will compete much of the time that he has 4-card support, but that may be OK anyway. To compete with only three-card support, he should have a fairly pure hand without wasted values in hearts. If he has AQx xxxx Kx AQxx we'll end up in a tricky 3♠, but he's rather more likely to have AQx KJ9x Kx Qxxx, in which case we'll defend 3♥ and probbaly beat it.

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If you bid 2N leb, LHO can obviously bid direct 3♥, but he will do it only with nice hand, when they are likely to make.

The opponents have about half the high cards and probably a 9-card fit. LHO is quite likely to have a hand where he thinks they are likely to make.

[wclass___]

Sorry maybe it is my poor English that caused this misunderstanding.

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I'd try 2♠, to encourage LHO to compete to 3♥

It sounded like 2♠ would normally encourage, (LHO hand improving e.g. ♠ shortness, no ♠ honors) while other bids including pass wouldn't encourage to bid on. (or would encourage less than 2♠ ).

But now it seems you bid 2♠, because it is 2♠, and it by default encourages to compete. I got it right now?

Both occasions seem weird, so maybe i still haven't got your position. Could you please explain as i don't get it. And maybe you could also give some reasons why 2♠ would encourage, because i saw none.

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AQx xxxx Kx AQxx, but he's rather more likely to have AQx KJ9x Kx Qxxx

Again it is my poor English, because i get it as you mean that 2nd hand is more probable than 1st one. That seems impossible to me after auction 1N-[2♥]-2♠-[3♥]

I find it really difficult to respond if opposite side doesn't give any reasons for it's statements, because i just don't feel convinced that i get other person right.

[gnasher]

wclass___, on Dec 7 2009, 05:57 PM, said:

But now it seems you bid 2♠, because it is 2♠, and it by default encourages to compete. I got it right now?

Both occasions seem weird, so maybe i still haven't got your position. Could you please explain as i don't get it. And maybe you could also give some reasons why 2♠ would encourage, because i saw none.

There are some hands where
- LHO is happy to play in 2♥, if he can
- LHO would prefer to play in 3♥ than to defend 2♠

I'm not going to provide any evidence for that, because every bridge player in the world knows from experience that such hands exist.

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Again it is my poor English, because i get it as you mean that 2nd hand is more probable than 1st one. That seems impossible to me after auction 1N-[2♥]-2♠-[3♥]

OK, I was a bit careless in creating my examples. If I said that AQx Qxxx Kx Axxx is more likely to occur than AQx xxxx Kx AQxx, would you agree with that? And then would you agree that if partner has the first hand, it is obvious for him to pass 3♥?

[wclass___]

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If I said that AQx Qxxx Kx Axxx is more likely to occur than AQx xxxx Kx AQxx

Without bidding you are obviously right, but with bidding i can't really answer. How did you evaluate that with bidding?

I try not to examine constructed hands like this, but to look onto problem generally. One exact hand in bidding problems don't prove much. Also i think that with your 1st hand it is not so easy to construct obvious full deals, they should be in pretty narrow area. All in all opps have 6 spades with king, ♣QJ,♦Q...and it is vul imps. What do you think?

I agree that first hand is Pass, but want to mention that your 2nd hand is very nice and is not far from 4♠ bid.

[jdonn]

I double. I'm not thrilled about the void but it shows takeout and that's what I have. If partner passes then we will just have to hope to beat it. Who knows maybe partner was going to pass but LHO raises first. I think the raise from LHO is more likely if I double than if I bid 2♠.

I also think partner is way too likely to raise my spade bid. He will raise most of the time he has 3 card support. My bid was made in competition so it won't be a worthless hand with 5 spades, so any time he has a decent hand for offense and a 3 card fit he will raise. He won't wait around for a hand with nothing at all in hearts. I don't think "very likely" was an overstatement at all.

I have never played the double promises a doubleton although I know some people do, because I don't see the point of playing it as takeout if you keep yourself from doubling so often. I would rather allow it on all shapes, have opener show a little more discretion than some others in passing, and live with the fact that there will be times I give up a doubled partscore.