[InTime]

Scoring: IMP

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I was sitting East with this hand and the bidding goes:
(1♦), 1♥, (1♠), ?
What is the best strategy here?
1. Pass and await developments?
2. Bid 2♥, 3♥ or 4♥?
I selected to bid 4♥ and now South converted to 4♠ and the bidding is passed around to you. Now what? . . . Pass or bid 5♥?
I passed and 4♠ was made. To bid 5♥ now you can go for a million.
The reason for asking the question is that where they did not elect to bid at all or not bid 4♥ say 2♥ or 3♥ the opposition ended up in 3♠ making 4♠.
Is this a lesson in not bidding to the level of the combined trump length or is it a once off to be written off? Am I overlooking something here?
Regards

[hanp]

I wouldn't have bid 4H but only 3H. 5332 distribution, red, I think 4H is too much. after 4S you have a very clear pass.

[peachy]

I don't know what the long term winning action would be, but I like Pass or a gentle 2H, to keep opponents in the dark of the true nature of my hand when I know that it is their hand. If you are adventurous with an understanding partner for when things turn sour, 2S could work too.

Bidding 4H lets the opponents have their cake and eat it, too. I mean, they can take their pick to Dbl or bid game (which they certainly have).

[Phil]

3♥ is plenty.

[MFA]

3♥, and I would never consider 2♥ or pass. 4♥ is too much opposite a one-level overcall.

[Cascade]

It is subminimum for 3♥ for me. Which unfortunately is not to say that I wouldn't bid 3♥.

[Free]

3♥ is pretty obvious imo. You know opps will make 4♠ so you don't want to push them by bidding 4♥ and letting them choose between 4♥x and 4♠ which is an obvious choice.

Preempting twice is aweful, so if you're planning on sacrificing against their 4♠, you might as well bid it immediately. Either bid 5♥, or bid 4♥ and shut up for ever.

[kfay]

Frankly even 3♥ is scary to me, but biddable.

IDK why you first teach people 'zomg 10 trumps.... GAME!' b/c you should learn this isn't always correct very quickly.

[655321]

This is a straight down the middle 3♥ bid. As others have mentioned, 4♥ is too much because you can easily go for a big number with such a balanced hand. And you bid these hands once - i.e. on the first round of bidding, you bid as high as you can, then pass.

Now it is not true that you know 4♠ is making, you don't even know for sure that the opponents have a spade fit. You preempt to take away room from the opponent's auction, with the proviso that you don't want to make it too easy for them to collect a number. When you take away this space, the opponents have to guess. Perhaps they belong in 4♠, perhaps they belong in 6♠, perhaps they belong in another contract. The point is that when they have to guess, they will sometimes guess wrong. But sometimes they will guess right, still in the long run you hope preempting will cause them to get to the wrong spot more often.

Passing and bidding 2♥ are pretty awful IMO.

[pooltuna]

InTime, on Jun 1 2010, 05:31 AM, said:

Dealer: South Vul: Both Scoring: IMP

♠ 943 ♥ 86532 ♦ 43 ♣ K43

I was sitting East with this hand and the bidding goes:
(1♦), 1♥, (1♠), ?
What is the best strategy here?
1. Pass and await developments?
2. Bid 2♥, 3♥ or 4♥?
I selected to bid 4♥ and now South converted to 4♠ and the bidding is passed around to you. Now what? . . . Pass or bid 5♥?
I passed and 4♠ was made. To bid 5♥ now you can go for a million.
The reason for asking the question is that where they did not elect to bid at all or not bid 4♥ say 2♥ or 3♥ the opposition ended up in 3♠ making 4♠.
Is this a lesson in not bidding to the level of the combined trump length or is it a once off to be written off? Am I overlooking something here?
Regards

If they are close to 4♠ then you don't want to force them to try it by calling 4♥ what you want to do is muddy up the waters enough so they are unsure that 4♠ is the right contract. So just bid 2♥ you have to hope this is sufficient noise for their 2 and 3 ♠ calls to have wide enough variance that they chicken out. At the same time you can't strap partner with a call where he can go wrong; the K♣ and 2 xtra ♥ make up for the insufficient HCP strength.

[jjbrr]

Agree with Wayne

[aguahombre]

Yeh, 3H is fine. All I am sure of is that passing and awaiting developments is not a good idea.

[dake50]

Never volunteer the last guess.
Here I'm pretty sure their best guess over 4H is 4S. I only have CK after all.
But over 3H, 3S or 4S guess left for them.

[InTime]

Scoring: IMP

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I really appreciate all the comments.
However, exchange the major suits as above and the bidding say for instance:
(1♦), 1♠, (2♥), ?
Now I suppose bidding 4♠ here will be in order?
Regards

[jjbrr]

I personally still think 4♠ would be crazy. 3♠ is plenty.

At least over 4♥ sometimes they bid 4♠ when they could have collected a huge number against 4♥. If we bid 4♠, the frequency of them bidding to the 5 level when they can collect a big number against 4♠ is smaller.

[aguahombre]

Having the 10-card fit in spades changes everything. With the original post 4H became a "transfer" to spades for them and eliminated choice to stop short.

Here, 3S does that same thing for them in hearts, which you are fairly sure is making. Therefore, the choices are anything but 3S.

[655321]

InTime, on Jun 1 2010, 10:57 AM, said:

However, exchange the major suits as above and the bidding say for instance:
(1♦), 1♠, (2♥), ?
Now I suppose bidding 4♠ here will be in order?
Regards

I wouldn't.

4♠ is no better than 4♥ on the original hand, and perhaps even a bit worse.
You still have all the losers you had on the original hand, and this time you are more likely to play there doubled.

Just bid 3♠, surprisingly your partner is also listening to the auction and if the opponents bid 4♥, he can bid 4♠ if he has a suitable hand. Being a genius by unilaterally diagnosing the opponents' correct contract, then making different bids according to your diagnosis is not the way to bid these hands. Just bid your hand.

[zhihuayao]

hi all i am from chinese this is my first time to reply
my words is this your 4h bid is better than my teacher online and no paymant she once win national champion many years ago
when she sit on the table and bid 3h when get a hand like this and bidding like this his husband, a pro of china said dear why not bid 4h this hand must bid 4h she said you are pro you need to bid 4h after my
3h this is zhe first topic i read that tell me as they said chinese play cards when get the contract is over his level intermediate is advanced who is in the west but when bidding chinese advcened is only intermidate who is in the west this the first topic i read and this hand so i relpy i think the rest thing to me is just read and learn by the way my teacher tell me she is not good enough

[jdonn]

I am scared of what would happen to us if my 3♥ bid were doubled. But I'm not particularly scared of it actually being doubled.

[jdeegan]

Anything but 4♥. I think the actual hand you cite is probably close to the general case and does contain a valid lesson. By preempting you are fighting vulnerable with a very short stick. Unless pard has a really good playing hand your yuckky 5-3-3-2 shape won't help much at the 5 level despite the extra trump.

More to the point, if you don't preempt to 4♥ (or even 3♥) the opponent with the doubleton ♥ will get overly pessimistic, thinking the ♥'s are 2-2. Sometimes (maybe half the time) this will matter and work in your favor. Personally, I would much rather pass than bid 4♥, which in some circles is known as a transfer to 4♠.