[petsei]

What would be a sensible approach to showing a superstrong reverse when partner bids one of the suit, into which you want to reverse?
A hand like xx, KQJx, Ax, AKQJx, for example. 1C - (p) - 1H - (p) - ?
4H would be passed with: KQxx, Axxx, xxx, xx.
And 4NT could be to high opposite something like QJx, T9xxx, Kxx, xx. Besides a 4NT bid wouldn't get you the necessary information.
Grateful for any any advice.

[Hanoi5]

4♣, it means you have support for the Major, game values and good clubs.

[TylerE]

On that hand, I employ the open 2NT convention. If anything, it's almost too good for 2N.

[shaztaz]

At one point, a partner and I decided to use the jump reverse to show that kind of hand. It works in the following cases.

1C 1H 3D
1C 1S 3D/3H (though we never really figured out what the two different calls should mean)
1D 1S 3H

We couldn't really think of any other use for the jump reverses so we decided that would show 18-20 hands with 4-card support and nothing to splinter into. The system fails after 1D 1H of course.

[inquiry]

Not sure this is entirely ready for prime time, but what I play here is a combination of two conventions... both I got from bbo member mishovnbg.

1m-(p)-1M-(p); 2NT <<----- "jacoby 2NT by opener!!!"
1m-(p)-1M-(p); 2om <<---- "new minor forcing by opener"

Here is what these are. The jump to 2NT shows a reverse type hand with four card support for the major partner bid. This is what you were asking about. I play it as not quite GF, and it has an effect on the upper range of the jump raise to the three level 1m-(p)-1M-(p); 3M, and can allow you to have 1m-(p)-1M-(p); 4M show a very specific hand type if you like.

The disadvantage of this, or course, you have no way to show a fairly frequent bid hand: a balanced 18-19 (or 17-18, or 17-19, whatever your current jump to 2NT shows). To show this hand (and some other hand types), you need to give up a nonforcing new minor bid by opener. Since this new minor could be a real suit or a balanced hand, you need artificial responder rebids to it. The hands that I do the best on with bid usually go like this...

1m-1M-2om-2M (where responder rebids his suit). I use this rebid to say, if you have the balanced 17-18 point hand, I want to play 2 of my major. This way we play in 2M rather than 2NT (or 3 of the major).

[pirate22]

without discussion i would bid 2 spades.cannot be passed!!

[barmar]

pirate22, on Jul 31 2010, 08:10 PM, said:

without discussion i would bid 2 spades.cannot be passed!!

And if partner is 4-4 in the majors, he'll never believe that it's better to play in ♥ (a presumed 4-3 fit) than ♠ (apparently a 4-4 fit).

Without discussion, bid 4♥. You might not find your slam, but at least you'll be in the correct game.

[Fluffy]

2NT is my bid, but it is forcing for me.

4♣ is the standard bid I think, showing game values good clubs.

4♥ if you just don't know.

[gwnn]

Fluffy do you have a special structure for your super nebulous 2NT forcing rebid? Also could you tell me which hands do you bid it on?

[gnasher]

3♠ is quite tempting.

[Cyberyeti]

gwnn, on Aug 1 2010, 05:15 AM, said:

Fluffy do you have a special structure for your super nebulous 2NT forcing rebid? Also could you tell me which hands do you bid it on?

Don't know if Fluffy does, but this is close to what I play and what I would play if I had a free choice:

1N opener 12-15
1N rebid 16-bad 19
2N opener good 19-22

(Big 4441s bid 1x-1y-3N with support or treat as balanced without)

Hence 1x-1y-2N is GF unbalanced, at least 5 card first suit

partner of the 2N bidder bids 3C unless he has a 6 card suit or 2 5 card suits.

Eg: 1D-1S-2N-3C-

3D = 6 diamonds may still have 4 hearts or 3 spades
3H = 5 diamonds 4 hearts, may have 3S
3S = 5 diamonds, 3 spades, not 4 hearts (presumably 3154 as unbalanced)
3N = 5 diamonds, 4 clubs, not 4 hearts or 3 spades
4C = 5+ diamonds, 4 spades, 1 club (club voids bid 4C not 2N)
4D = 5 diamonds, 4 spades 2-2
4H = 5+ diamonds, 4 spades, 1 heart (heart voids bid 4H not 2N)

We play 1D-1S-4D as something like 4171/5161 where you only care about aces in the side suits as we normally cue bid 1sts and 2nds.

[Free]

I like 2 methods:
- 2NT rebid which shows support
- overloaded reverses (2♦ = 16+ 0-2M, 2OM = 16+ 3+M)

[barmar]

Hanoi5, on Jul 31 2010, 04:41 PM, said:

4♣, it means you have support for the Major, game values and good clubs.

Usually this shows a 6 cards in the minor, although I suppose you could be forgiven for treating AKQJx as equivalent. On the other hand, being 6-4 implies shortness in a side suit; being 2-2 means more losers there, although again it's not as bad because one of them is Ax.

[aguahombre]

barmar, on Aug 1 2010, 09:33 AM, said:

Hanoi5, on Jul 31 2010, 04:41 PM, said:

4♣, it means you have support for the Major, game values and good clubs.

Usually this shows a 6 cards in the minor, although I suppose you could be forgiven for treating AKQJx as equivalent. On the other hand, being 6-4 implies shortness in a side suit; being 2-2 means more losers there, although again it's not as bad because one of them is Ax.

Yep. I think the convention is called the convention with no name....from way back Hardy/Walsh. They distingushed between 6-4 barely wanting to get up to game, and "Serious" slam try ---4C serious, 4D not serious (not splinter --could be 2-1 or 1-2 in other suits).

And, Yep --tempted to fudge and use it here, for Barmar's reasons.

[inquiry]

petsei, on Jul 31 2010, 02:59 PM, said:

What would be a sensible approach to showing a superstrong reverse when partner bids one of the suit, into which you want to reverse?
A hand like xx, KQJx, Ax, AKQJx, for example. 1C - (p) - 1H - (p) - ?
4H would be passed with: KQxx, Axxx, xxx, xx.
And 4NT could be to high opposite something like QJx, T9xxx, Kxx, xx. Besides a 4NT bid wouldn't get you the necessary information.
Grateful for any any advice.

I didn't show the treatment for these two hands with the method I gave earlier, sorry.

Here it is...

opener has xx, KQJx, Ax, AKQJx

Responder A had KQxx, Axxx, xxx, xx
Responder B had QJx, T9xxx, Kxx, xx

Auction A.
1C - 1H
2N - 3H*
4C - 4D*
4N - 5C
6H - Pass

2N = strong game invite or better in hearts
3H = game force, acceptance
4C = cue-bid, no spade cue-bid available
4D = Last train, promises a spade control (not enough to take control however)
4N = RKCB (opener can take control now however)
5C = 1 or 4


Auction B
1C - 1H
2N - 3C
3D - 4H
Pass

3C = I reject game try, all my stuff is in the suits you didn't bid and I am min
3D = re-game try (actually here opener can just bid game instead)
4H = ok, I have enough to accept a second try

[jdonn]

gnasher, on Aug 1 2010, 05:25 AM, said:

3♠ is quite tempting.

I don't find it tempting at all, and certainly it wouldn't help opposite the example hand in the original post that makes slam. In fact I find it by far the least tempting out of 3♠, 4♣, and 4♦. The less I have in a suit the more I dislike (fake) splintering in it since partner will more often have wasted strength.