[ArtK78]

Playing in a local round robin, where we play two 12-board matches each scored at VPs, I picked up this hand:

1NT - 15-17
2D - Diamonds and a major
2H - Pass or Correct

---

As is often the case in these partly social/partly serious competitions, my partner and I were a very occasional partnership, and we did not have a firm agreement on whether my double of 2♠ was for takeout or for penalty. After I doubled, she thought about the situation for a good 60 seconds before passing out 2♠x, which we beat 800 with no game our way.

Query - how do you play the double of 2♠ in an auction like this one?

[karlson]

Takeout.

It's not like we had another chance to show a takeout double of spades, so I don't see why the usual penalty/takeout arguments about 1n-(2x)-x wouldn't apply.

[mtvesuvius]

I would have Doubled 2♦ for Takeout, this Double should be takeout as well, IMO.

[ArtK78]

Suppose that your immediate doubles of natural overcalls are for penalty. What then?

[mikeh]

mtvesuvius, on 2010-November-17, 13:15, said:

I would have Doubled 2♦ for Takeout, this Double should be takeout as well, IMO.

that seems inconsistent: if you double 2♦ for takeout, are you not inviting partner to bid 2♠? which suggests you have spades, at least to some degree....if the double of 2♦ is takeout, subsequent doubles should be penalty.

BTW, on the actual auction, opener's hand pretty much answers the question anyway. RHO wouldn't have pulled 2♦ to 2♥ unless he/she preferred spades to diamonds and holding KQxx, the odds of responder having a penalty double of 2♠ must be very low.

[mtvesuvius]

mikeh, on 2010-November-17, 15:35, said:

that seems inconsistent: if you double 2♦ for takeout, are you not inviting partner to bid 2♠? which suggests you have spades, at least to some degree....if the double of 2♦ is takeout, subsequent doubles should be penalty.

Good point, perhaps X should be more co-operative (or Value-Showing)... Or perhaps pure penalty.

[Zelandakh]

This is to some extent a generational thing. If you look at back at older rules for doubles such as from Culbertson then the double is penalty. Older players still tend to expect a double opposite a 1NT opening to be penalty. But most current players and practically all of the juniors play these doubles as take-out. Have a set of meta-rules and stick to them. This is far more valuable for the average pair than having every situation optimally mapped out.

[mike777]

ArtK78, on 2010-November-17, 13:04, said:

Playing in a local round robin, where we play two 12-board matches each scored at VPs, I picked up this hand:

1NT - 15-17
2D - Diamonds and a major
2H - Pass or Correct

---

As is often the case in these partly social/partly serious competitions, my partner and I were a very occasional partnership, and we did not have a firm agreement on whether my double of 2♠ was for takeout or for penalty. After I doubled, she thought about the situation for a good 60 seconds before passing out 2♠x, which we beat 800 with no game our way.

Query - how do you play the double of 2♠ in an auction like this one?

penalty, I would play 2nt as t/o over 2s.

x of 2d would be penalty also. 2h and 2s nat....2nt as t/o.
---option 2 is too play x of 2d as neg.