[VixTD]

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This is an inter-county teams-of-eight qualifying competition, scored by X-IMPs converted to VPs. EW are vulnerable. The standard of players is high. EW are playing 5-card majors and a strong NT. 3♦ = good raise in hearts.

What would you bid here with the North hand? What else, if anything, would you consider bidding?

[Free]

I don't really care what EW are playing, I care about my own preempt style. If this is a hand partner expects, then pass is pretty obvious. If I promisse more, then pulling is more obvious.

What I don't understand is the pass on 3♦X, doesn't that show extra's?

[bluejak]

You may play it as showing extras: not everyone does, including me. I rebid 3♥ with good hearts but minimum, so pass suggests poor hearts.

As to the first question I certainly consider both pass and 4♥. As Free says, which I choose probably depends on what I believe I have shown.

[FrancesHinden]

I would pass and would never do anything else.

I appreciate that I'm not necessarily answering the question you have asked, but I have never had a partner who has doubled a bid-to-make 3NT anything other than slowly. I don't think a slow double demonstrably suggests pulling, unless the tempo was obviously unusual for the doubler.

[Mbodell]

In this situation I think partner's double says lead hearts. And that he may make that double with something like Axxx or AQx or KQx wanting us to lead hearts and not be scared of the 3nt bidder having possible positional stoppers.

Does partner have enough outside to prevent them getting 8 tricks outside to go with their 1 heart trick? Probably not, but maybe. But if partner doesn't, 4♥X isn't going to be that much better. And 4♥X is a disaster if 3nt was going down (or if they run from 3nt to a bad spot). So I think I'd pass an in tempo double here.

[paulg]

I'd pass without too much thought. This is not my problem especially if my pass of 3♦-X showed weakness.

[gordontd]

Mbodell, on 2010-November-22, 21:23, said:

In this situation I think partner's double says lead hearts. And that he may make that double with something like Axxx or AQx or KQx wanting us to lead hearts and not be scared of the 3nt bidder having possible positional stoppers.

Who is on lead?

[gordontd]

Free, on 2010-November-22, 09:29, said:

I don't really care what EW are playing, I care about my own preempt style. If this is a hand partner expects, then pass is pretty obvious. If I promisse more, then pulling is more obvious.

Even if I think I've shown more than I have, I don't pull partner's penalty doubles in this sort of situation. I just prepare to defend carefully, and apologise if it makes. A far easier apology to offer than if I pull and partner has the contract off in his own hand.

(I should say that this ruling involved the team that I was in, but not at my table, and I didn't hear about it until the next day).

[nige1]

VixTD, on 2010-November-22, 08:35, said:

This is an inter-county teams-of-eight qualifying competition, scored by X-IMPs converted to VPs. EW are vulnerable. The standard of players is high. EW are playing 5-card majors and a strong NT. 3♦ = good raise in hearts.
What would you bid here with the North hand? What else, if anything, would you consider bidding?

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IMO 4♥ = 10, _P = 8. I agree with GordonTD's arguments. It does depend on partnership weak jump-overcall style. Pass leaves you better placed in the post-mortem. Notwithstanding, I still bid 4♥ and apologise if I've guessed wrong. For us, 2♥ would normally welcome a ♥ lead -- although passing 3♦ doubled would indicate a poor hand and deny a great suit.

• This hand and suit are unusually weak and
• LHO's ♥ strength makes 4♥X unlikely to cost more than 500.
• 3N may be touch and go -- a matter of tempo -- but if it does make then it is likely to make with overtricks, costing 200 each.
• The 4♥ choice is undisciplined and may not win a popularity-poll with partner or team-mates but I reckon it is with the odds.

[VixTD]

I asked North whether this was a typical weak jump overcall for him, and he said no, he would normally have 5-9 pts and a six-card suit.

Does this change your opinion on whether pass is a logical alternative?

[Free]

Gordon made a good point, so pass is still a logical alternative imo.

[paulg]

VixTD, on 2010-November-23, 07:34, said:

I asked North whether this was a typical weak jump overcall for him, and he said no, he would normally have 5-9 pts and a six-card suit.

Does this change your opinion on whether pass is a logical alternative?

No. Many people will find reasons to stretch at this vulnerability, as this player has indeed done. I doubt that this is a great surprise to anyone, let alone his partner.

[olegru]

My next call will be 911
Hopefully they come before partner will see my hand and kill me (sorry for off topic)

[VixTD]

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This was the full hand. EW got +800 from defending 4♥X, but thought they were due more in 3NTX. I asked North why he had bid 4♥ and he said "I've only got one point". While I would have liked to punish South not only for doubling, but for doubling slowly, I couldn't see a logical alternative to 4♥ with the North hand. It's not as if he's got a trick, or if there's a ghost of a chance of setting up the hearts.

I understand the comments from those of you who would never pull a double in this situation, but I don't suppose everyone plays that way. Should I be imposing that on NS? If they are ever going to pull the double, this is the hand they are going to do it on, and they're going to do it every time.

EW appealed, then later withdrew their appeal, not for lack of belief in their cause, but because the appeal was going to be held very late that evening. It seems from the comments here that they are likely to have won the appeal.

[jallerton]

VixTD, on 2010-November-24, 08:09, said:

I asked North why he had bid 4♥ and he said "I've only got one point". While I would have liked to punish South not only for doubling, but for doubling slowly, I couldn't see a logical alternative to 4♥ with the North hand. It's not as if he's got a trick, or if there's a ghost of a chance of setting up the hearts.

Did you carry out a poll of peers of North? If so, what were the results?

[VixTD]

jallerton, on 2010-November-24, 22:24, said:

Did you carry out a poll of peers of North? If so, what were the results?

No, perhaps I should have done, but I was worried that I would pick up a substantial number of players who never pull partner's penalty double and are in that sense not peers of North, or at least, do not play the same style as North. I believed North when he said this was an atypical overcall for the partnership.

[Chris L]

VixTD, on 2010-November-24, 08:09, said:

EW got +800 from defending 4♥X, but thought they were due more in 3NTX.

This was board 16 in Group C in the first session; in our match all four tables played in 3NT, making an average of +2; the "datum" score on the butlers was EW +650 so EW might well have scored +1150 in 3NTx.

[mycroft]

I would still like to know what N/S typical WJO style is at favourable. If this is totally out of line, fine. If this is "bottom edge of normal", less so.