[Lurpoa]

When playing in Inividual tourneys on BBO, very often the default sytem or even the compulsatory system you have to play is "SAYC".
To what Conventiona Card is that referring ?
Is there somewhere a description of that system ?

[wank]

Lurpoa, on 2010-December-10, 05:19, said:

When playing in Inividual tourneys on BBO, very often the default sytem or even the compulsatory system you have to play is "SAYC".
To what Conventiona Card is that referring ?
Is there somewhere a description of that system ?

there is a 5 card major, strong no trump system published by the ACBL. This is SAYC. It includes a list of conventions.

In reality when people say SAYC on BBO, they basically mean strong NT, 5 card majors. Whichever conventions your partner considers to be a part of SAYC are anyone's guess. Your partner's list and the ACBL's list will assuredly not match.

[hotShot]

Take a look at ACBL's SAYC booklett.

[kenberg]

See the recent thread
http://www.bridgebas...pic/43073-sayc/

In particular, the reference to
http://web2.acbl.org...y/sayc_card.pdf

Edit: Hotshot got the reference in while I was typing.

Of course the above is the theory, the facts are often otherwise.
In particular, note that on the cc the sequence 1♣ or ♦ - 2NT shows 13-15 hcps. Many indy players will treat 2NT as invitational.

Also, note that if you, say, overcall 1♦ with 1NT, then the cc tells you that your partner's 2♣ call will be Stayman but his 2♥ call shows hearts, not spades.

You have to have a sense of humor to play in the indies. The most important thing to know about conventions is when they are on and when they are off, and that is exactly what you do not know when you are in an indy. In theory, the default is the SAYC card shown. In practice, it's anyone's guess.


I quote Yogi Berra: In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they aren't.

[mycroft]

kenberg, on 2010-December-10, 07:49, said:

Of course the above is the theory, the facts are often otherwise.
In particular, note that on the cc the sequence 1♣ or ♦ - 2NT shows 13-15 hcps. Many indy players will treat 2NT as invitational.

The other common one people "forget" is negative doubles through 2♠ only.

Quote

You have to have a sense of humor to play in the indies.

"If you have not been passed in blackwood, you cannot win an individual." -- Jeff Goldmith's Imperious Rules of Bridge

[Lurpoa]

I don't think that the compulsatory Convention Card in Individual Tourneys is ACBL SAYC.
What is it ? Where can I find a description of that BBO SAYC ?

[matmat]

I think you're right that the BBO SAYC differs from the ACBL SAYC.

here's a link to the former:

BBO SAYC

[kenberg]

I learn something every day. In particular, I see that on the BBO SAYC card, the auction 1♦-2NT is in fact invitational. Whether this is a good idea when 2/1 is not a game force is open to question, but that would be the subject of another thread. I have not yet been able to find (1♦) -1NT-(pass)-2♥ on this cc. There was a time when 2♦ was used as Stayman (Cue bid Stayman, it was called) and 2♣ was natural and weak, but once it is agreed that 2♣ is to be used as Stayman certainly it makes sense to use 2♦ as a transfer to hearts and therefore 2♥ becomes a transfer to spades.


Mostly I have found the transfer sequences to be played in this sensible way, but not always. The ACBL-SAYC card does say transfers are off there, and some take them at their word. The meaning of 1♦-2NT always worries me when it occurs. ACBL says forcing, I now see BBO says invitational. In my experience, it's a crapshoot as to what partner might mean.


Suggestion: At the beginning of the acbl tourneys the director generally announces that if no cc is posted, the default is SAYC. Fine as far as it goes, but ho about including the link to the cc above at the same time? I take a relaxed attitude when I play in an indy, but it would be good to have this cc close at hand.

Here is an example from yesterday. Partner apologized afterward but no apology was necessary as far as I am concerned. Neither of us knew the other from Adam and it's very likely I would have made the same bid.

---

As you can see, 6♦ is pretty much on ice, and when the jack of hearts comes down 13 tricks are there in diamonds. In NT there are 12 tricks but partner cashed his winners in a way to put maximal discarding pressure on the opponents. They got it wrong and he took all the tricks. As I somewhat expected, this thirteenth trick gave us an above average board!

Anyway, I will study this BBO card and treat it as the default.

[diana_eva]

The default CC in ACBL is the ACBL SAYC.

The CC loaded in the automated individuals is the BBO SAYC.

[kenberg]

diana_eva, on 2010-December-11, 09:34, said:

The default CC in ACBL is the ACBL SAYC.

The CC loaded in the automated individuals is the BBO SAYC.

Thanks, I continue to learn.

[Lurpoa]

matmat, on 2010-December-11, 01:20, said:

I think you're right that the BBO SAYC differs from the ACBL SAYC.

here's a link to the former:

BBO SAYC

That is very nice. Looks like some very smart people did some very good work here...
Keep it up !

Would there be a text version available ? That is more easy to get immediately the main features of a system.

But many thanks.