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7?

#1 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 06:54

IMPs

Partner showed 24-25HCP and ♠A and ♥A
Do you agree with the bidding so far?
- I passed as opener because I didn't feel like I had another good bid (I could open 2♥ Muiderberg, but dropped that idea immediately)
- I bid 2♥ because my hand and the bidding 'told' me that partner was strong (2♠ would be a better bid)
- I bid 5♣ because I didn't see a better way to get the info I needed?
But can I still find out if it should be 6 or 7?
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#2 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 08:50

I'd rather tell partner we have all keycards before bidding 6♥, but not encouraging anything, 6♣ I think is the hand that best serves this purpose.
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#3 User is offline   blackshoe 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 08:51

What would 5NT be now?
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#4 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 09:16

View Postblackshoe, on 2011-January-16, 08:51, said:

What would 5NT be now?

Specific King Ask
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#5 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 10:28

View Postkgr, on 2011-January-16, 09:16, said:

Specific King Ask


And doesn't that also tell partner that we have the ♥KQ + ♦A?

Seems perfect.
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#6 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 11:21

If 5NT and 6♣ both show ♥KQ and ♦A, which one is stronger?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#7 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 11:29

View Postgnasher, on 2011-January-16, 11:21, said:

If 5NT and 6♣ both show ♥KQ and ♦A, which one is stronger?


I'm riffling through my partnership notes, and unfortunately pages 564-566 are missing.

Seriously, I play (in the rare times I've even discussed this) 5N is an inquiry about the trump Q and 6♣ as specific kings. I have no idea what 6♣ would be in KGR's methods.
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#8 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 12:30

how about
5N king ask
6C inviting partner to bid 7 if he doesn't have too much wastage in clubs

made it up on the spot!
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#9 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 12:30

Phil, don't you usually play keycard voidwood? In that case partner would have already denied the trump queen so you don't need a queen ask.
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#10 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 13:12

View PostPhil, on 2011-January-16, 11:29, said:

I'm riffling through my partnership notes, and unfortunately pages 564-566 are missing.

Seriously, I play (in the rare times I've even discussed this) 5N is an inquiry about the trump Q and 6♣ as specific kings. I have no idea what 6♣ would be in KGR's methods.

4♠ denied the ♥Q.
5NT is Specific King Ask.
We don't have an agreement about 6♣, but after this hand we agreed that 6♣ should show this hand: All Keycards and trump queen, but uncertain that it should be 6 or 7.
I did bid 6♥ because I couldn't think of a way to get the info I needed to find out if it was 7.

5NT or 6♣ would have done the job.
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#11 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 13:26

What do we think 6D should show? Does this not completely reinforce the KQ of hearts and A of diamonds?

I think anything that says not sure enough to bid 7 but some grand interest should do the job.
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#12 User is offline   kgr 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 13:43

View Postmr1303, on 2011-January-16, 13:26, said:

What do we think 6D should show? Does this not completely reinforce the KQ of hearts and A of diamonds?

I think anything that says not sure enough to bid 7 but some grand interest should do the job.

I would think that 6♦ would ask 3rd round in ♦ (or extras somewhere else)
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#13 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-January-16, 17:12

View PostJLOGIC, on 2011-January-16, 12:30, said:

Phil, don't you usually play keycard voidwood? In that case partner would have already denied the trump queen so you don't need a queen ask.


I've played both, but I prefer keycard. In the old Kantar version, key cards were shown 0, 1, 2, 3... I can't tell if the OP is playing Keycard voidwood or the old kind.
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#14 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-January-17, 03:27

View Postmr1303, on 2011-January-16, 13:26, said:

What do we think 6D should show? Does this not completely reinforce the KQ of hearts and A of diamonds?

I think anything that says not sure enough to bid 7 but some grand interest should do the job.

6♦= ♥KQ ♦K and all keycards, so ♦A also, if it asks or shows I am not sure, but that's not the hand we have.
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#15 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-January-17, 04:09

Maybe it was time to show, not just to try to find out :) It would have worked wonderfully on this hand, and it goes hand in hand with the principle that it should be the unbalanced hand who is trying to describe himself to the balanced hand. In this case opener knows that even opposite the void the AKQ of clubs will prove useful and will be very happy to bid grand.

All that said, I don't know if I had done this at the table.
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#16 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-January-17, 04:09

2
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#17 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-January-17, 04:09

3
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
      George Carlin
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#18 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2011-January-17, 04:48

If you ask for keycards excluding clubs and then confirm all the keycards, you have shown the KQ of hearts, the DA, a club void, and 5 hearts. In keycard auctions it frequently turns out that the keycard bidder shows his hand and responder has the choice of bidding 7. Bidding keycard, unlike bidding blackwood, does not completely take over captaincy for grand slam auctions, and frequently works as "showing" your hand when no other auction would.
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