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For some reason I always thought 1♥-1♠-2NT shows 18-19 balanced (playing 15-17 1NT). I'm now told by one of my partners that it shows 15-17 in his system. Is this a. normal; b. odd, but playable; c. behind the times or d. ridiculous?
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1H-1S-2NT
#1
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Posted 2011-January-17, 18:35
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
-- Bertrand Russell
-- Bertrand Russell
#2
- Vesuvius the Violent Volcano
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Posted 2011-January-17, 18:40
Dee dee dee...
Yay for the "Ignored Users" feature!
#3
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Posted 2011-January-17, 19:44
b & d
Senshu
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Posted 2011-January-17, 19:47
I meant "playable" and "ridiculous" to be mutually exclusive.
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
-- Bertrand Russell
-- Bertrand Russell
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Posted 2011-January-17, 19:55
DD
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
(still learning)
"At last: just calm down, this kind of disrupted boards happens every day in our bridge community. It will always be an inherent part of bridge until we move to a modern platform, and then will we have other hopefully less frequent issues." P Swennson
(still learning)
"At last: just calm down, this kind of disrupted boards happens every day in our bridge community. It will always be an inherent part of bridge until we move to a modern platform, and then will we have other hopefully less frequent issues." P Swennson
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Posted 2011-January-17, 20:12
DDD
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Posted 2011-January-18, 03:15
What they said 
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
#8
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Posted 2011-January-18, 05:20
e. Common in Germany?
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Posted 2011-January-18, 06:47
cherdano, on 2011-January-18, 05:20, said:
e. Common in Germany?
Yes, part of German standard (Forum D) in fact. Does that make it any better, though?
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
-- Bertrand Russell
-- Bertrand Russell
#10
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Posted 2011-January-18, 08:48
depends on whether or not 1NT opener is allowed to hold a 5 card M. If not then it is pretty much foisted on the bidding system as 15-17 and the 1M opening 3NT rebid is 18-19 balanced. This of course could create a memory load when the auction goes 1m 2NT or 1m 3NT.
"Tell me of your home world, Usul"
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
the Freman, Chani from the move "Dune"
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
George Bernard Shaw
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Posted 2011-January-18, 09:09
pooltuna, on 2011-January-18, 08:48, said:
depends on whether or not 1NT opener is allowed to hold a 5 card M. If not then it is pretty much foisted on the bidding system as 15-17 and the 1M opening 3NT rebid is 18-19 balanced.
No, it's not. You could just rebid 2♥. Or, better yet, allow opener to rebid a 3-card minor.
Of course, allowing 5 hearts in 1NT is also a very good idea...
"One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"
-- Bertrand Russell
-- Bertrand Russell
#12
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Posted 2011-January-18, 09:32
it will drop an imp here or there, but I don't think it's ridiculous. If you don't like opening 1N with 5 hearts and special treatments, you "have to" play 2N as 16-19, with some 19's sneaking in 2N. So 15-17 can't be all that bad. I wouldn't play it though.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
George Carlin
George Carlin
#13
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Posted 2011-January-18, 11:59
mgoetze, on 2011-January-18, 06:47, said:
Yes, part of German standard (Forum D) in fact. Does that make it any better, though?
Yes, there is always a lot of advantages in playing treatments that are standard where you play bridge.
The easiest way to count losers is to line up the people who talk about loser count, and count them. -Kieran Dyke
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Posted 2011-January-18, 16:33
Hi,
an the german standard system is heavily influenced by the
french standard system.
Playing the jump rebid as 15-17, is as good as any solution
to the problem, what opener has to bid on his 2nd turn, when
he happens to have a bal. hand with a 5 card major and the
strength to open 1NT.
If you bid this way, you wont miss a 5-3 major suit fit, and
you dont have to overload your NT response strucure to find out,
that the NT opener has a 5 card major.
With kind regards
Marlowe
an the german standard system is heavily influenced by the
french standard system.
Playing the jump rebid as 15-17, is as good as any solution
to the problem, what opener has to bid on his 2nd turn, when
he happens to have a bal. hand with a 5 card major and the
strength to open 1NT.
If you bid this way, you wont miss a 5-3 major suit fit, and
you dont have to overload your NT response strucure to find out,
that the NT opener has a 5 card major.
With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
#15
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Posted 2011-January-18, 16:37
Odd but playable, if the rest of your system accommodates it, seems like a good answer.
If you try it with a random North American partner, you're more likely to get told "ridiculous."
If you try it with a random North American partner, you're more likely to get told "ridiculous."
#16
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Posted 2011-January-20, 06:53
double D
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Posted 2011-January-20, 07:26
Clearly D. the french system has many flaws but not this one : 2NT definitely shows 18-19 (for most players 3NT actually shows 4 card spade support unable to splinter); with (15)16-17 you are supposed to rebid 2m (3 cards ) and over the likely 2♥ preference rebid 2NT. Opening 1NT is another common approach but far from mainstream (one style with significant following is to open 1NT with a 5 card major only when you have 3 cards in the other major)
P_Marlowe, on 2011-January-18, 16:33, said:
Hi,
an the german standard system is heavily influenced by the
french standard system.
Playing the jump rebid as 15-17, is as good as any solution
to the problem, what opener has to bid on his 2nd turn, when
he happens to have a bal. hand with a 5 card major and the
strength to open 1NT.
If you bid this way, you wont miss a 5-3 major suit fit, and
you dont have to overload your NT response strucure to find out,
that the NT opener has a 5 card major.
With kind regards
Marlowe
an the german standard system is heavily influenced by the
french standard system.
Playing the jump rebid as 15-17, is as good as any solution
to the problem, what opener has to bid on his 2nd turn, when
he happens to have a bal. hand with a 5 card major and the
strength to open 1NT.
If you bid this way, you wont miss a 5-3 major suit fit, and
you dont have to overload your NT response strucure to find out,
that the NT opener has a 5 card major.
With kind regards
Marlowe
#18
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Posted 2011-January-20, 18:09
It is playable, but you may go down in a lot of 2NTs. Also, you have to overbid 3NT with 18 HCP.
IMO, a better solution would be to rebid 2NT to show good 16 to 18 and open 1NT with 15 to normal 16. Opening 1NT with 5 M and 17 can often be rather bad when partner holds some shapely (or even balanced) 7-8 HCP with 4 cards support.
IMO, a better solution would be to rebid 2NT to show good 16 to 18 and open 1NT with 15 to normal 16. Opening 1NT with 5 M and 17 can often be rather bad when partner holds some shapely (or even balanced) 7-8 HCP with 4 cards support.
mgoetze, on 2011-January-17, 18:35, said:
For some reason I always thought 1♥-1♠-2NT shows 18-19 balanced (playing 15-17 1NT). I'm now told by one of my partners that it shows 15-17 in his system. Is this a. normal; b. odd, but playable; c. behind the times or d. ridiculous?
#19
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Posted 2011-January-21, 14:43
C & D here. But who cares about a north african country anyway.
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