[bftboy]

---

Opps are silent. Partner opens 1nt, then 2♦-2♥. Do you make a slam try with this hand? If so, what is your plan? 2♥ showed either a min hand with 3♥ or a max with only 2. thx,

[mtvesuvius]

I'd splinter 4♣. If partner has club wastage, we don't want to be in slam, if they have a good hand opposite club shortness, we definitely want to be there. I'm not sure whether I'd make one more try over 4♥, I think I'd give up though.

[Phil]

4♣.

[cherdano]

I would just check keycards. Slam is great opposite many hands with club wastage. If we are off ♠AK, opponents still have to lead them.

[gnasher]

I agree with Cherdano, although it may mean missing a good grand slam opposite something like Axx xxx AQJxx Axx or AKJx xx Axx Axxx.

[Phil]

I can't ask for key cards here.

I also guess we should not have bothered to transfer.

[mtvesuvius]

Right, if the plan all along was to RKC, we couldn't bid this way. Having bid 2♦ I guess 4♣ is kinda forced on us. It's probably right to move over 4♥ though, idk

[TWO4BRIDGE]

gnasher, on 2011-February-09, 13:48, said:

I agree with Cherdano, although it may mean missing a good grand slam opposite something like Axx xxx AQJxx Axx or AKJx xx Axx Axxx.

Responder's with a long Major are stuck with for low-level GF rebid after a transfer.

I've shown this before and it drives da flufster crazy.
Let's take gnasher's 2nd example:
1NT - 2D!
2H - 3C! ( GF, maybe artificial )
3D! ( new suit = 4 or 5 ♣ but only 2 ♥ ) - 3H ( long ♥ suit, cancels interest in ♣ )
4S! ( RKC for ♥ ) - 5H ( 2 + ♥ Q )
6H

[mcphee]

I like to splinter here, the question is if partner bids 4H do we make one more move. If I was just going to take over I would set trumps via texas and then key card.

[cherdano]

When I was still playing bridge, everybody was debating whether to play 4C or 4D as keycard after 1N 2D 2H. (The other one is a quantitative slam try.) Young people these days have thrown this out of the window?

[gnasher]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-February-09, 21:12, said:

Responder's with a long Major are stuck with for low-level GF rebid after a transfer.

I've shown this before and it drives da flufster crazy.
Let's take gnasher's 2nd example:
1NT - 2D!
2H - 3C! ( GF, maybe artificial )
3D! ( new suit = 4 or 5 ♣ but only 2 ♥ ) - 3H ( long ♥ suit, cancels interest in ♣ )
4S! ( RKC for ♥ ) - 5H ( 2 + ♥ Q )
6H

The point of my examples was that there might be a grand slam. If the best that your methods can do is get you to the same wrong contract as everybody else, it's not much of an advertisement.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

gnasher, on 2011-February-10, 07:52, said:

The point of my examples was that there might be a grand slam. If the best that your methods can do is get you to the same wrong contract as everybody else, it's not much of an advertisement.

Then, let's try your 1st example:

Responder
Axx xxx AQJxx Axx

1NT - 2D!
2H - 3C!( ostensibly a 2nd 4 or 5 cd suit, but maybe artificial )
3H ( 3h but no 4c ) - 3S ( sort of a "waiting bid" )
3NT - 4C ( now showing the long ♥ hand w/advance cue )
4S! ( kickback RKC ) - 5H ( 2 + hQ )
5S! ( K-ask ) - 6D ( ♦ K only )
7NT ( counting 1s, 6h, 5d, 1c )

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
But, honestly, I prefer the ♣ self-splinter bid after the transfer and simple accept.

[mtvesuvius]

cherdano, on 2011-February-10, 06:42, said:

When I was still playing bridge, everybody was debating whether to play 4C or 4D as keycard after 1N 2D 2H. (The other one is a quantitative slam try.) Young people these days have thrown this out of the window?

I have gotten rid of that, if my plan is to RKC in a major I have to start with Texas, or rebid something else to set the major, or even rebid 3m then Keycard. If I were to use one of them as RKC I think I'd use 4♦. Not sure what the point of that is though, since you almost never have a hand that can't safely invent some other bid... And even then, you can still bid texas then RKC.

[bftboy]

I'm starting to agree that probably the best way to do it, as many suggest, is just xfer and splinter. At least P can properly value or devalue his ♣ holding. On the actual hand P would have bid 4♠ over 4♣, so you might as well then bid 6 ♥. If the ♦ A is wrong, and if P doesn't have the Q (he did), then there's no guarantee that even 5 is making.

[mtvesuvius]

Lol Don, do you and Andy always have 14-card hands?

[TWO4BRIDGE]

mtvesuvius, on 2011-February-10, 10:59, said:

Lol Don, do you and Andy always have 14-card hands?

I just copied/pasted his hand w/o counting.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
There is also the Meckwell - "TURBO-like" treatment for Responder's hand:

1NT - 2D! ( simple transfer )
2H - 5H! ( 2 + hQ; replying as if 4S!-RKC were asked )
5S! ( K-ask ) - 6D ( ♦ K only )
6H for hand #2 ( A K J x, x x, A x x, A x x x )
7NT for hand #1 ( A x x, x x, A Q J x x, A x x ... hoping the red suits split )

[Stephen Tu]

cherdano, on 2011-February-10, 06:42, said:

When I was still playing bridge, everybody was debating whether to play 4C or 4D as keycard after 1N 2D 2H. (The other one is a quantitative slam try.) Young people these days have thrown this out of the window?

Are you sure you don't have this confused with the Stayman sequences 1nt-2c-2h-(4c/4d)?

xfer followed by 4m has been splinter for as long as I can remember, with keycard hands using Texas.

[Phil]

Stephen Tu, on 2011-February-10, 14:23, said:

Are you sure you don't have this confused with the Stayman sequences 1nt-2c-2h-(4c/4d)?

xfer followed by 4m has been splinter for as long as I can remember, with keycard hands using Texas.

Same here. A few years ago I used to think that RKC / balanced slam try could be played after Jacoby, but I think I was confused.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

bftboy....

Sooo, what was the actual opening 1NT hand here ?

[WrecksVee]

I use Keri so I would have bid 2♠ over 1NT asking for range. After partner shows a min (2NT) or max (3C) 3♥ shows a 6+ suit slam try. Klinger in his book suggests immedicate key card responses with a fit with 3NT (skipped in the steps) to show rag doubleton in support. I think cue bidding is better to see if we have all suits controlled. if not we can stop in game or bid RKCB.