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2/1, What do you think this undiscussed sequence should be?

Poll: 1S-2H, 2N-4D (42 member(s) have cast votes)

The leap to 4D should be...

  1. An auto splinter, showing a self sufficient heart suit and short diamonds (24 votes [57.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.14%

  2. A splinter showing a source of tricks in hearts and spade support (11 votes [26.19%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.19%

  3. A picture bid, showing at least 6-5 in the reds with slam aspirations (2 votes [4.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.76%

  4. Something else which I will explain below (2 votes [4.76%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.76%

  5. I have no frickin' clue. (3 votes [7.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.14%

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#21 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2011-August-26, 01:33

View Postgnasher, on 2011-August-25, 11:43, said:

My first thought was that it was obviously an autosplinter for hearts.


This was my first thought as well. However on reading Justin's post, I agree that his interpretation makes more sense.
"The King of Hearts a broadsword bears, the Queen of Hearts a rose." W. H. Auden.
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#22 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-August-26, 04:24

View Postcherdano, on 2011-August-25, 21:05, said:

I am sure someone from Europe would post that it obviously shows 15-17 :)
In a style where you always open 1NT when in range with a 5-card major, I thought it's normal that 2NT in the auction above is 2-way, either 12-14 or 18-19; the latter will make another move towards slam later.


The rebid

1M 2x
2NT

has many standard meanings. It's mostly system-based and it depends on your NT structure (obviously) but also on stuff like whether or not you open 1NT with 5-card majors.

In sayc I believe it means good 13-14. With 12-13 bad you rebid 2M instead.
In SEF (french standard) it's 15-17. With 12-14 you rebid 2M.
In 2/1 it's 12-14 or 18-19. With 15-17 you rebid 3NT.
In ACOL I believe it's 15-19. With 12-14 you open 1NT.

I might be slightly off in the above, since I usually brew my own systems and don't keep up with the latest doctrinal developments :)
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#23 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2011-August-26, 06:11

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-August-26, 04:24, said:

The rebid

1M 2x
2NT

has many standard meanings.In ACOL I believe it's 15-19. With 12-14 you open 1NT.


In Acol it is 15-16 and non-forcing. If you choose to bump up your 2/1 strength then you can play it as GF, commonly either 15-17 or 15-19. However this is NOT standard Acol.
(-: Zel :-)
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#24 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-August-26, 06:50

assuming 2NT shows 2+ hearts, this would show for me the same as 1-1-1NT-4 and 1-1-2NT-4 wich is autosplinter in my case.
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#25 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-August-26, 07:28

I thought 1 - 2 - 2N - 4 was the auction that people actually needed to discuss. 4 has to be a spade splinter.

Traditionally these 2nd round splinters have required four trump. However, there seems to be a trend of making an immediate forcing raise or even bidding 2 with most hands that contain four trump, so perhaps 4 should be sensibly used as a hand with three trump but some distinguishing feature like no control in the 4th suit.
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#26 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-August-26, 08:13

View PostZelandakh, on 2011-August-26, 06:11, said:

In Acol it is 15-16 and non-forcing. If you choose to bump up your 2/1 strength then you can play it as GF, commonly either 15-17 or 15-19. However this is NOT standard Acol.


That's why I said "I believe". I'm not sure :) Anyway, I did see an expert pair playing it as 15-19 and other recommending it, but perhaps they're mavericks.
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#27 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-August-26, 08:14

View PostPhil, on 2011-August-26, 07:28, said:

I thought 1 - 2 - 2N - 4 was the auction that people actually needed to discuss. 4 has to be a spade splinter.

Traditionally these 2nd round splinters have required four trump. However, there seems to be a trend of making an immediate forcing raise or even bidding 2 with most hands that contain four trump, so perhaps 4 should be sensibly used as a hand with three trump but some distinguishing feature like no control in the 4th suit.


I seem to remember something in Fred's lectures about delayed splinters being 3-carders...
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#28 User is offline   gordontd 

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Posted 2011-August-26, 09:24

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-August-26, 08:13, said:

That's why I said "I believe". I'm not sure :) Anyway, I did see an expert pair playing it as 15-19 and other recommending it, but perhaps they're mavericks.

I think it is pretty standard these last twenty years, though there are probably still some who play it the traditional 15-16.
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#29 User is offline   Lurpoa 

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Posted 2011-August-26, 15:14

View PostCSGibson, on 2011-August-25, 09:15, said:

We had the following auction playing 2/1 game forcing:


Despite being an experienced partnership, we had never discussed this auction. Agreements are that 2/1 is always game forcing, even with a suit rebid; no strong jump shifts; and we do not use an immediate Jacoby 2N or splinter if the most important feature of our hand is a source of tricks. 2N indicates a balanced hand with the outside suits stopped; 2 would be our default rebid.

What do you think 4 should mean? Is it obvious?





I keep on repeating myself, yes !
It is all you want, but you must agree with partner.

You cannot trust that she thinks the same "should be" as you, without prior discussion.



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#30 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-August-26, 16:26

View PostPhil, on 2011-August-26, 07:28, said:

I thought 1 - 2 - 2N - 4 was the auction that people actually needed to discuss. 4 has to be a spade splinter.

If 4 is a splinter for spades, what other meaning might you assign to 4?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#31 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-August-26, 21:01

View Postgnasher, on 2011-August-26, 16:26, said:

If 4 is a splinter for spades, what other meaning might you assign to 4?


Ger.....

No I can't even say it.
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