[Free]

I'm not sure about the vulnerability, we were V, no idea about opps.

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Open or not (team game, imps scoring)?

In case it matters to you:
- we play solid openings (pass most 11 counts)
- we play Reversed Drury after 3rd & 4th seat openings
- we play Gazzilli (so we better pass if the auction would go 1♠-1NT)

[TWO4BRIDGE]

All I know is that it fails the Rule-of-15 by 1.

[andy_h]

Yes I would open 1♠. Given our suit is spades I would hope this would shut the opponent's out of the auction. If partner responds 1NT then I will bid 2♣ gazzilli or not because I desperately want to play in a suit contract which could still either be clubs or hearts.

[Fluffy]

harder at MPs, but at IMPs won´t twist my mind about getting 3 IMPs one way or the other, pass and go for next. IMO opponents are more likelly to make game than us.

[WrecksVee]

I would pass avoiding a possible minus or plus in my room. I think the odds are in favor of a minus IMO. But what do I know?

[Bbradley62]

Fluffy, on 2011-November-27, 08:30, said:

harder at MPs, but at IMPs won´t twist my mind about getting 3 IMPs one way or the other, pass and go for next.

+1

Fluffy, on 2011-November-27, 08:30, said:

IMO opponents are more likely to make game than us.

I don't see why this should be the case.

[ArtK78]

So if partner has a maximum pass we have half the deck and we may have the spade suit.

While the opponents' silence implies that partner is at or near his maximum, I would still pass. Not enough of a gain if I am right to open, and the chance of turning passout into a minus is significant.

Game is not an issue here unless someone has a massive fit. The silence so far implies that no one has a massive fit.

[Raff90]

i would pass

[kenrexford]

Good time for using Roman 2♠ in fourth seat.

[MrAce]

I would definetely open 1♠.

I would do this auto at mp, and i would hesitate 1/100 of a second at imps.

[Yu18772]

My first reaction was 1♠, but after some thought:

• There are 31 HCP between the 3 passes, so we have 18-20, and they 20-22. If we have a ♠ fit - great, we may have 3 IMPS, if we are allowed to play 1NT - not bad, but may be down.
• May be one of the ops will have urge to double 1NT it and the other leave it in? (were ops any good?) -then its really bad.
• If I bid 2♣ over 1NT, and we have a ♣ fit - they have a fit in something higher than ♣ (again - were ops any good, will they fight for a partscore?).
• We might not have spade fit, but let them find ♥ fit

So I think overall, in IMP vul I would pass, against good ops - I will pass. Against average or lesser ops and MP I would bid.....

[jmcw]

With the boss suit and 1/2 the deck I have no qualms about opening any V. 1♠ all day.

[ggwhiz]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2011-November-27, 02:37, said:

All I know is that it fails the Rule-of-15 by 1.

Corollary to the rule of 15 is OR can bid to the 3 level with a bit of comfort. I can here and wouldn't be surprised to defend 3 of a red suit and beat it if we don't buy it in a making partscore.

Not a cinch but odds on.

[the hog]

andy_h, on 2011-November-27, 04:14, said:

Yes I would open 1♠. Given our suit is spades I would hope this would shut the opponent's out of the auction. If partner responds 1NT then I will bid 2♣ gazzilli or not because I desperately want to play in a suit contract which could still either be clubs or hearts.

Wouldn't a pass shut the opponents out of the bidding even more than a 1S opening, or do we now have 5 consecutive passs before a hand is thrown in?
Obvious pass for me

[andy_h]

the hog, on 2011-November-29, 17:53, said:

Wouldn't a pass shut the opponents out of the bidding even more than a 1S opening, or do we now have 5 consecutive passs before a hand is thrown in?
Obvious pass for me

When I said "Given our suit is spades I would hope this would shut the opponents out of the auction" I am comparing the different types of openings (1♣/1♦/1♥/1♠) as a whole in 4th seat, which means that pass is out of the question.

[whereagles]

In a normal system I guess you can open 1S. Opposite me pass is better, as I would have opened on any excuse lol.

[Free]

I considered it borderline but passed. At the other table, they opened 1♠, responder bid 2NT showing INV with 4 card fit, opener showed minimum with 3♠ but responder bid 4♠ anyway without anything extra. Everything was positioned well (♥KQ in front of dummy's AJx, dummy only had small ♦s, ♣KJx onside, trumps 2-2,...) and they made the contract. Sigh...

If I'd open we'd never play 4♠ anyway, so damage from my pass was rather small.

[the hog]

Free, on 2011-December-02, 07:10, said:

I considered it borderline but passed. At the other table, they opened 1♠, responder bid 2NT showing INV with 4 card fit, opener showed minimum with 3♠ but responder bid 4♠ anyway without anything extra. Everything was positioned well (♥KQ in front of dummy's AJx, dummy only had small ♦s, ♣KJx onside, trumps 2-2,...) and they made the contract. Sigh...

If I'd open we'd never play 4♠ anyway, so damage from my pass was rather small.

"Everything was positioned well"
So 9 times out of 10 you will get a good result. Seems like you were very unlucky this time.

[han]

Indeed you were very unlucky. However, had the other table stopped in 3S as they should, have then you would have lost 4 or 5 IMPs and luck wouldn't have been such a big factor.

I'm not saying you should open 1S (I would pass, but my partner opens lighter than yours), but don't dismiss the losses of your pass just because they bid badly at the other table.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Free, on 2011-December-02, 07:10, said:

I considered it borderline but passed. At the other table, they opened 1♠, responder bid 2NT showing INV with 4 card fit, .

Side issue:
Passed hand uses 2NT! as a 4 card fit , INV . ??
Isn't 2NT better used for something else in the long run and use 2D! ( 2-way Drury ) for the 4 card INV ( or 2C! , REV Drury for either 3 or 4 card INV ) for better "protection" for Opener -- especially if you are prone to Open 9 counts in 4th ??