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ATB: missed 3NT

Poll: ATB: missed 3NT (18 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think?

  1. North can't bid 3H as it asks for a H stopper .. he should just suck it up and bid 3NT himself (3 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

  2. With 2 opposing suits, 3H shows a stopper, South is expected to bid 3NT with a spade stopper (4 votes [22.22%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.22%

  3. 3H by North is fine, South should respond 3S showing values, allowing North to bid 3NT (6 votes [33.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.33%

  4. Missing this marginal game is no big deal (2 votes [11.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.11%

  5. Something else (explain below) (3 votes [16.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.67%

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#1 User is offline   the_dude 

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Posted 2011-December-01, 15:18

A thorny hand came up with a couple of my students today .. and I had difficulty explaining a good solution.



South felt 3 was looking for a stopper for 3NT, he didn't have one and had a bad hand, so he signed off in 4.

North, following the meta rule that if the opponents bid 2 suits and you are missing one stopper, you bid the one you have .. thought 3 showed a heart stopper and asked for a spade stopper.

It's possible N should just blast 3NT over 2 and hope that the opponents can't take 5 (or 6) fast tricks.

However, it seems North's 3 just shows a big hand, and it wouldn't hurt South to bid 3 showing values (allowing N to now bid 3NT). Of course, it's possible that North could take 3 as a 4 card suit and put S in 4 even with a known 4-1 split.

Any ideas?
If no one comes from the future to stop you from doing it then how bad a decision could it really be?
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#2 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2011-December-01, 17:19

I think you came close to answering your own questions by your comments.

1. The meta rule about bidding the stopper you hold doesn't apply when, as here, the cue-bidder hasn't really begun to describe his hand. 3 is needed as a generic force. Consider Ax xx AKxxx AKQx....we can't bid 3...that would be natural in any logical method (else you invite the opps to rob you blind).

2. Since 3 announces a non-specific big hand, it behooves S to 'do something intelligent'

It is arguable that such might include showing a 4 card spade suit along the way, but (given that 2 showed some, albeit modest, values), the frequency with which one would have this hand is minimal. One might well double 1 with 4=5 pointed and 6+ hcp, intending, if possible and necessary, to show diamonds later. Otoh, in this auction, when partner is jammed, we need to be able to find the 9 trick game. Partner may have other ideas, but, if so, he can always clarify....our first duty is to help him. Using 3 to show values, rather than a suit, seems to me to be more plausible....with a spade card and diamonds, we have to bid diamonds over 1. With a spade suit, diamonds and values, we could have doubled 1. Therefore the former is more consistent with the auction than the latter interpretation.

As an aside, the notion of N blasting 3N makes me feel ill. The double implied spades, the 3N would guarantee something in the suit....admittedly the auction suggests partner has a card or two in the majors, but he still doesn't need to stop spades and, more importantly, we can ask him via 3.
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#3 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-December-01, 22:56

View Postmikeh, on 2011-December-01, 17:19, said:

I think you came close to answering your own questions by your comments.



Thats also what i think
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#4 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2011-December-02, 04:48

Your analysis is good, but I don´t think south´s 3 can be taken as natural, it looks like somesort of last train to 3NT, with 4 spades doubling 1 is better.
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#5 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-December-02, 06:45

North's 3H is not well defined. South has little to spare and 4D seems correct. I think north should avoid messing up and bid 3NT. South is bound to have some spades anyway.
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#6 User is offline   Jinksy 

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Posted 2011-December-02, 08:57

I'm not crazy about the initial X. S might compete quite heavily in Ss as a result. Why not 1N? At this vul P will surely raise you with as much as a 7 count.
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#7 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-December-02, 09:55

1NT?? Sorry, but unless you play that as some 19-21, the call seems out of order.
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