[Vampyr]

Phil, on 2012-January-06, 12:10, said:

2♦ for reasons given by CSGibson, Cthulhu D (2nd post) and Hrothgar.

Things that are not appropriate for the BI follow:



--------------

Ah, a Kokish hand. Lets see if I can use the methods I'm trying out:

2♣ - 2♦
2♥* - 2♠**
3♣*** - 3♥****
3N# - 4♣#
RKC and kings follow

...7N

* - Kokish
** - 0-2 hearts
*** - Single suited hearts
**** - Doubleton support
# Serious Cue in ♠, Cue

Interesting. I play a non-heart suit bid after 2♠ to show a second(ary) suit along with my hearts. What is your full method?

[neilkaz]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-January-06, 11:49, said:

South seems to be putting a lot of faith in partner holding the ♠ Ace to be bidding the grand with no actual ♠ Ctrl-cue by North.

The auction sure looks like Kickback to me.

[S2000magic]

TWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-January-06, 11:49, said:

South seems to be putting a lot of faith in partner holding the ♠ Ace to be bidding the grand with no actual ♠ Ctrl-cue by North.

Holding the ♠A himself, I doubt that South's all that worried about whether North has it or not.

[Phil]

Vampyr, on 2012-January-06, 12:15, said:

Interesting. I play a non-heart suit bid after 2♠ to show a second(ary) suit along with my hearts. What is your full method?

There was a post a thread I started a few weeks ago about using transfers as opener after a Kokish 2♠. Clee suggested that you use "two-under" transfers and I have adopted that.

The main change is that any hand with at least three hearts does something other than 2♠. But I need to put this into a different thread, sorry. It is not OK for a B/I section and my discussing it is a distraction to the central point.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

S2000magic, on 2012-January-06, 12:32, said:

Holding the ♠A himself, I doubt that South's all that worried about whether North has it or not.

Duhhh. Corrected my post # 19 .

[blackshoe]

jillybean, on 2012-January-06, 10:26, said:

And I bet you dont open 1n with 5 card suits either?

Actually I do, if it's a balanced five. Except with one partner who got upset with me when I did it.

Added: down thread a couple posts, Frances mentions she doesn't open 1NT with a 5 card major. I'm not sure what she plays, but when I was in England, and playing Acol, I didn't open 1NT with a five card major either. That was twenty years ago. Now, in the US, playing 2/1, I do.

This post has been edited by blackshoe: 2012-January-06, 22:52

[FrancesHinden]

jillybean, on 2012-January-06, 09:00, said:

For those who play 2N as a balanced, positive response - why not use that here? And, what sort of hand would you have to use the 2N bid?

Because it's not a balanced hand. You have a 5-card spade suit, and there's a good chance you want those to be trumps. You also have a low doubleton heart, so there is a good chance that partner should be declarer. The 2N response is going to be quite rare, but it looks something like this:

K10x
Q10x
Q10xx
Q10x

(I think it should also be limited, something like either 8-10 or so strong it's going to take control)

jillybean, on 2012-January-06, 10:26, said:

And I bet you dont open 1n with 5 card suits either?

Personally, not with a 5-card major, no.
But to take the point seriously, this is a very different position to deciding whether to open 1NT with a 5-card major. In that circumstance you are usually aiming at getting to the right game. You open 1NT as often as possible to conceal your hand and avoid having a long scientific auction to the same 3NT contract, and because if you play in 3NT yours will likely be the stronger hand so wants to be declarer. This hand is very different, you have what is basically a slam force, and you want to explore denomination and level. You also have no reason to think that you should be declarer.

[cherdano]

FrancesHinden, on 2012-January-06, 14:55, said:

Because it's not a balanced hand. You have a 5-card spade suit, and there's a good chance you want those to be trumps. You also have a low doubleton heart, so there is a good chance that partner should be declarer.

You also have a 4-card club suit that might be the right trump suit.

[sasioc]

You say you were worried that, having not given a positive response, you had made it harder for partner to know what you had (ie some values). While it's true that 2♦ is not a positive response, most people play that it does not deny values either, it just doesn't have anything better to do. Partner should expect that you may show up with a good hand and be prepared for you to tell him you have one. Fwiw I would basically never bid 2NT 8+ because it just makes it so difficult to find the right strain and to know how many points you have between you (given that it's unlimited) unless you have discussed continuations very thoroughly. Additionally it is also possible that you will wrongside 6NT or 3NT, even if this is rare.

It's also not necessarily that important that partner knows what you've got - as long as he tells you what he's got! Once he's opened 2♣ and shown hearts and diamonds you are in a position to guide the auction as you have a better idea of your combined assets than he does. If I were the 2♣ bidder I would let partner tell me what he wanted after I'd shown my suits and would not go beyond game by myself - my hand's not *that* good. Partner knows that diamond honours are huge, as is the spade ace. He is in a far better position than me to judge where we belong.

[Zelandakh]

jillybean, on 2012-January-06, 10:26, said:

is 2N a useful bid after 2C at all? Partner will usually hold 6 to bid 2M after 2C:2D and will bid 2N on `balanced` hands.

I much prefer to respond 2D with balanced hands to let Opener start describing their hand. I think that it is far more useful to play either transfers from 2NT up (2NT = clubs, 3C = diamonds, 3D = hearts) or to use 2NT as a heart positive. An alternative method I have used with alot of success is to play a 2D response as positive, a 2H response as a double negative, and for other responses to be semi-positives transfers.

[gwnn]

also nice to use 2NT as 5-5 in majors or better (when it is least likely that we want to play no trumps). another method is 2NT=single suited in a major (6+ with 2 out of top three).

Fred described a while back

2♣-2♠=8-10 balanced. that range can get tricky because you're not sure whether you want to commit to slam. it is also the case that the vast majority of 8+ balanced hands will be in this range.