[billw55]

From a sectional swiss yesterday. None vul, IMPs. More or less vanilla 2/1 system.

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1. agree with 2♣?
2. anything more after 4♥-p-p?
3. any gadgets that might clear the waters on hands like this?

[Phil]

Good problem.

I'll double. I think the chances of us making and them going down much less a double game swing outweigh the 5 IMPs they'll get for -590 when partner is broke and cannot profitably pull.

[dwar0123]

4n should show 4 diamonds and a desire to play a minor. it's limited to 4 because you didn't bid 2nt over 1♥.

[ggwhiz]

Double. As pointed out a loss should be in (to me) the acceptable 5 imp range, the cost of doing business.

If pards double of 4♥ would or might (if undiscussed) have been takeout we owe it to him and if pard pulls, we may get to defend 5♥ or find a playable spot.

A pull by pard might go for -500 to only lose a couple, well worth trying to bump them up. If it blows up, I think I can defend it upside wise in the bar without having to buy a round.

[aguahombre]

dwar0123, on 2012-January-09, 12:39, said:

4n should show 4 diamonds and a desire to play a minor. it's limited to 4 because you didn't bid 2nt over 1♥.

I wouldn't commit a 2N bid over 1H with 7-5; and that is what 4N would be for us. Delay unusual with 4-6 is fine for a 2-level re-entry but not 4NT.

I think this is close between "I had my 2C bid" (pass) and a reopening double, with the nod going to double, if the opponents' 4H raise is expected to be weak with long hearts. Against Precision or intermediates, there is no such assurance.

[mycroft]

Yeah - assuming that 4♥ is preemptive, I'm playing "pseudo-Zia transfers" with this hand - double. In any situation where 4♥ could include a flat minimum game-force, I'll stay psyched.

[Phil]

dwar0123, on 2012-January-09, 12:39, said:

4n should show 4 diamonds and a desire to play a minor. it's limited to 4 because you didn't bid 2nt over 1♥.

Are you suggesting that we should give up our prospects of defending? Or the possibility of playing 4♠?

[Cthulhu D]

I think you have to double, with even fairly marginal spade support from partner it probably has some play, and he knows you don't have four spades (because you didn't make a TO double earlier), so he's going to be playing you for 3-?-3-5 with the remaining 2 cards in hearts and clubs (3-1-3-6) which isn't quite it, but close enough. Particularly as partner's double would have been takeout or blame transfer-ing when you guess wrong?

[S2000magic]

I'd double. Partner needs something to keep his interest in this hand.

[aguahombre]

S2000magic, on 2012-January-11, 12:45, said:

I'd double. Partner needs something to keep his interest in this hand.

And, by what extraneous means did partner show interest in this hand?

[wyman]

X no problem yet

[JLOGIC]

Doubling seems incredibly aggressive. We would also double with AQx x Kxx AKxxxx I assume. I do not know how partner will judge correctly here a reasonable amoutn of the time, I assume he will pass way too often and they might make overtricks. Also, if partner bids 4S, my hand is pretty terrible taking the tap with the good trumps and having no entry to the club suit. The hand could easily collapse. I just don't think this hand is very good/special at all to commit to defending 4H X or bidding higher than that all by ourselves.

This is different than doubling a direct 4H opener because partner has heard us show values and still passed already.

Obv it is possible for Xing to work well but I don't think it is percentage.

[JLOGIC]

Phil, on 2012-January-09, 12:39, said:

Good problem.

I'll double. I think the chances of us making and them going down much less a double game swing outweigh the 5 IMPs they'll get for -590 when partner is broke and cannot profitably pull.

A) A double game swing is unlikely given that partner did not X 4H to show values. It seems like most of the time a double game swing would occur would be when partner bids 5D which is obviously unlikely. Likewise us making and them going down when partner chose to pass 4H seems unlikely, our hand is not very good.

B) -590 is something I would pray for if partner passes, seems like it could be -690 or -790 pretty easily.

C) I could see us going for a number pretty easily. If partner bids 4S or 5C this hand could be very ugly, again, our hand is not very good imo, we just have a lot of losers and partner is marked as not having a great hand from his failure to bid earlier.

Maybe I am just bein pessimistic but I think you and others are being highly optimistic. I am usually a big doubler with a void in this spot but I am just not excited by this hand.

[bluecalm]

Double might work I don't have strong intuition in that spot.Move a diamond to spades and it's auto double for me.

[Cyberyeti]

I'd double, is xxx, xxx, KQxxx, xx or KJxxx, xxxx, x, xxx too much to hope for ? Yes it can go horribly wrong, the most awkward question to answer is what to do if partner bids 4♠ and it gets doubled, do you pull to 5♣.