[gnasher]

---

Double would be for takeout.

What do you do? If you double, what will you do over the likely continuations?

Edit: IMPs

[BunnyGo]

I'll pass and hope to go plus. I have reasonable defense that it's not clear (or necessarily likely) that 4♥ is making. Additionally, I don't have so many controls or shape that I'm confident of making anything above 4♥. It may be the low road, but I'll just try to take a plus here, at any form of scoring.

[wclass___]

Pass and hope to go plus. Partner is on lead and hopefully we can eventually finesse some of east's honors. Partner passed over 2♥ and it is not likely that this hand has high enough O2DR to act.

[JLOGIC]

W/R I find pass comfortable. I mean I would pass even r/w but I think I'd be stolen from a lot more. Maybe I am wrong and we often have a good save w/r but I think we have enough D to hope to beat them also.

[the hog]

Pass. Not that happy, but nothing else makes me happier.

[dake50]

My teammates are capable of this same auction.
Stay sane and pass.

[nigel_k]

Pass for me too.

[neilkaz]

I also pass, perhaps we can set them by scoring a trick with each one of our control cards. Perhaps 5♦x gets killed. Worse yet, perhaps 5♦X is a costly phantom.

Sure we can have a good save in 5♦X but I think the odds favor a pass.

[Codo]

I am much less confident then the rest to get four tricks. Even if rho has the missing aces, why shold they need to lead both black suits, so that I can come to both of my kings?

I had bid 5 ♦.

This is a loosing position on the actual deal and a minority view in the thread- maybe this should teach me something.

[Fluffy]

I also think this is closer than the poll suggest, bidding on has 3 ways to win (make, sacrifice and push them), and pass, when wins, will win very little. As oposed to biddign with works very seldom but wins much more.

[Phil]

Can we move to Forum Events please?

[aguahombre]

If pass didn't work well in a forum event, oh well. Resulting a board won't change my mind.

If one of the members of the JEC team took a different action which worked, touche. Sometimes great players make lucky mistakes.

[Phil]

aguahombre, on 2012-March-04, 19:22, said:

If pass didn't work well in a forum event, oh well. Resulting a board won't change my mind.

If one of the members of the JEC team took a different action which worked, touche. Sometimes great players make lucky mistakes.

The bidding was different at our table.

[aguahombre]

Then, Gnasher's point in initiating this thread might be about how partner of the 2H bidder at one table dicked around and let them in cheaply ---or the disadvantages of playing multi when partner can't just jump raise as a preempt.

[JLOGIC]

Fluffy, on 2012-March-04, 17:17, said:

I also think this is closer than the poll suggest, bidding on has 3 ways to win (make, sacrifice and push them)

This is always true when the choice is whether to bid something or pass. I guess it's a good argument for bidding in close situations in general. However you lost me here:

Quote

and pass, when wins, will win very little.

If this was true I guess I would always bid. However going down even 300 when you could have gone +100 is a 10 imp loss. Obviously the reason to pass on hands that have a lot of defense and not that much offense is because you risk a phantom sacrifice which is very costly. If we thought 4H would always be cold then bidding would be good whenever we had good offense, but that is also obvious.

The reason to pass is even when you make something you might well get to the wrong spot, when you bid 5D you risk going for a large number even when they are cold, and most importantly when you are beating them and not making it will be costly, it won't be "winning very little"

Imagine if partner just has a stiff diamond and a bad hand, obviously that would be a worst case scenario but we will go for a really large number instead of going plus.

In general when you have good chances to beat them and not that great of a chance to make, bidding is a bad idea since phantoming is very very bad (even -100 into +100 is a medium sized loss). I am not trying to say that bidding does not have good upside, if they are cold and we hit a big fit we might find a good save, we might make, etc.

However, it's just about figuring out how likely these scenarios are, which is obviously hard to quanitfy, but imo passing is pretty clear. Maybe I am too optimistic bout our D and too pessimistic about our O. That almost everyone in the thread advocates passing is not too surprising to me.

[JLOGIC]

Fluffy, on 2012-March-04, 17:17, said:

I also think this is closer than the poll suggest, bidding on has 3 ways to win (make, sacrifice and push them)

This is always true when the choice is whether to bid something or pass. I guess it's a good argument for bidding in close situations in general. However you lost me here:

Quote

and pass, when wins, will win very little. As oposed to biddign with works very seldom but wins much more.

If this was true I guess I would always bid. However going down even 300 when you could have gone +100 is a 10 imp loss. Obviously the reason to pass on hands that have a lot of defense and not that much offense is because you risk a phantom sacrifice which is very costly. If we thought 4H would always be cold then bidding would be good whenever we had good offense, but that is also obvious.

The reason to pass is even when you make something you might well get to the wrong spot, when you bid 5D you risk going for a large number even when they are cold, and most importantly when you are beating them and not making it will be costly, it won't be "winning very little"

Imagine if partner just has a stiff diamond and a bad hand, obviously that would be a worst case scenario but we will go for a really large number instead of going plus.

In general when you have good chances to beat them and not that great of a chance to make, bidding is a bad idea since phantoming is very very bad (even -100 into +100 is a medium sized loss). I am not trying to say that bidding does not have good upside, if they are cold and we hit a big fit we might find a good save, we might make, etc.

However, it's just about figuring out how likely these scenarios are, which is obviously hard to quanitfy, but imo passing is pretty clear. Maybe I am too optimistic bout our D and too pessimistic about our O. That almost everyone in the thread advocates passing is not too surprising to me.

[MrAce]

aguahombre, on 2012-March-04, 19:39, said:

Then, Gnasher's point in initiating this thread might be about how partner of the 2H bidder at one table dicked around and let them in cheaply ---or the disadvantages of playing multi when partner can't just jump raise as a preempt.

Yes at other table i bid 2NT instead of 4♥

It went

2♥-pass-2NT-DBL
4♥-4♠-pass- ?

Now what would you bid with this hand Andy gave ?

[dake50]

If the other table's auction was
2H p 2NT ???
Shouldn't this hand have chosen 3D?
Now a free 4S over 4H suggests a suit
that likes Kx support.
So up we go.

[bluecalm]

I would bid 3D after 2N.
If I doubled and heard 4♠ I would pass. I hope we can make it but partner won't like the dummy.
I wonder how much you would need to add to this hand to make it a bid after 4♠. I am thinking q♦ is still easy pass. K♦ is closer but still pass.
Add K♦ and turn K♣ in to A and we are talking.

[JLOGIC]

MrAce, on 2012-March-05, 00:15, said:

Yes at other table i bid 2NT instead of 4♥

It went

2♥-pass-2NT-DBL
4♥-4♠-pass- ?

Now what would you bid with this hand Andy gave ?

Hate to say it but abstain because double is completely ridiculous.