[awm]

I really cannot recall ever getting a bad score because I opened 2m with 6-card minor and a side 4-card major and missed a major suit fit. On the hands where responder is too weak to invite, the opponents can almost inevitably make something; they will either bid (allowing us to find our fit) or pass (missing their own fit, which could easily be a good result for us even though we missed our fit also). This 1♦ opening that can be balanced or 4M-either-longer-minor also seems like a gigantic loser to me in competitive situations.

[straube]

What's your opening structure? Four-card majors, but 1D, 1H, and 1S all denote major suit interest so I'm a bit stumped.

I used to play that 1D promised a 4-cd major and our 2m was the same as olien is contemplating. I like your placement of the 5/5 in 2C. You have much more room over a 2C opening and I think you'll be +0.

I also noticed overbidding against our 2m openings and thought our 2D opening was a winner. These openings may not enjoy such an advantage over very strong opponents; they ought to recognize that we may be in a bit of trouble if we've opened 2D with AQx x QJxxx Axxx and let us get some bad results.

One ought to hope to gain imps with more preemptive and descriptive bids; our 2D showing six is a winner, too, when it comes up (which is maybe 2/3 as frequent).

[straube]

awm, on 2012-April-17, 22:54, said:

I really cannot recall ever getting a bad score because I opened 2m with 6-card minor and a side 4-card major and missed a major suit fit. On the hands where responder is too weak to invite, the opponents can almost inevitably make something; they will either bid (allowing us to find our fit) or pass (missing their own fit, which could easily be a good result for us even though we missed our fit also). This 1♦ opening that can be balanced or 4M-either-longer-minor also seems like a gigantic loser to me in competitive situations.

I feel that way about our 2C opening which may have four spades. When I open 4S/6C hands, I don't worry that we'll miss a spade fit. Usually our best fit is clubs and we may take more tricks in clubs than in a 4/4 spade fit. Our 2N opening shows 4H/6C and we've often suppressed a heart fit in favor of clubs for that very reason.

[shevek]

straube, on 2012-April-17, 23:05, said:

What's your opening structure? Four-card majors, but 1D, 1H, and 1S all denote major suit interest so I'm a bit stumped.

I used to play that 1D promised a 4-cd major and our 2m was the same as olien is contemplating. I like your placement of the 5/5 in 2C. You have much more room over a 2C opening and I think you'll be +0.

I also noticed overbidding against our 2m openings and thought our 2D opening was a winner. These openings may not enjoy such an advantage over very strong opponents; they ought to recognize that we may be in a bit of trouble if we've opened 2D with AQx x QJxxx Axxx and let us get some bad results.

One ought to hope to gain imps with more preemptive and descriptive bids; our 2D showing six is a winner, too, when it comes up (which is maybe 2/3 as frequent).

1♣ = 16+
1♥= 4+♥, denies 4♠s, could be minor canapé
1♠ = both majors
1♦ = 4+♠s, denies 4♥s
1NT = 12-15 balanced-ish, no Major

[straube]

Ok. I've seen that before in discussions about how to make Moscito legal in certain jurisdictions.

[Kungsgeten]

Here's a link to a convention card by a Swedish former partnership, Nyström - Bertheau, playing the structure suggested by OP: http://www.svenskbri...om-bertheau.pdf
Perhaps it can be useful as inspiration? It seems like they open 2NT holding 5-5 in the minors.

I would also believe that the 1♦ works pretty well in competition. If opener holds the balanced hand, no action will be taken unless responder demands it. If opponents bid a major, a minor bid would show that minor and 4 cards in the unbid major. It may be more troublesome if they enter the bidding with a minor, I don't know.

[mgoetze]

straube, on 2012-April-16, 21:51, said:

2m (2L)

Either I don't understand your notation, or this is a defense against insufficient bids. If I write, say, 1M-(2L), I mean any of the following: 1♥-(2♣), 1♥-(2♦), 1♠-(2♣), 1♠-(2♦), 1♠-(2♥). L, you see, stands for "Lower". Perhaps you mean to write "2m (2X)"?

[mike gill]

Noble and I have been playing almost the same thing for a while now, except that we play that 2d = 5+/4+ and put the long diamond hands in with 1d. We also only open 2c with 4-5 if the clubs are good, otherwise we open 1d/1n.

We think the advantages of not having a 4M when opening 2m outweigh the small advantage you gain from knowing partner has 2+ diamonds. Some that I don't think have been mentioned:

1) If responder has 1 or 2 4cMs in response (which happens constantly), he really has to ask since if a fit exists then 4M is almost certainly better than 3n. We can choose to just blast 3N and let them guess which suit to lead, not to mention not giving them any opportunities to double/not double the likely artificial continuations that are going to ensue.

2) You can play penalty doubles after they overcall, since there's no need for negative doubles.

3) You can preempt more effectively knowing that if you have 2/1 in a major the opponents are guaranteed to have 8/9 cards there. Plus, when you do have a 4M, you can preempt 4m/5m directly knowing you're not missing 4M.

4) Without having to look for 4-4 major fits, your methods are much more free to have good constructive auctions when you want to. We play 2d as a GF relay over 2c and play TOSR, since it fits under 3N (even without the 5332 hand type thrown out).

Set against this, you have a slightly more painful life when you open 1d and they preempt. This auction isn't exactly a dream in regular precision, though, so I really don't think you're giving up very much. Not having to ever rebid 2c after 1d 1M to show d+c is nice as well, since it frees up that bid for other constructive uses.

[straube]

mike gill, on 2012-April-21, 11:08, said:

Noble and I have been playing almost the same thing for a while now, except that we play that 2d = 5+/4+ and put the long diamond hands in with 1d. We also only open 2c with 4-5 if the clubs are good, otherwise we open 1d/1n.

We think the advantages of not having a 4M when opening 2m outweigh the small advantage you gain from knowing partner has 2+ diamonds. Some that I don't think have been mentioned:

1) If responder has 1 or 2 4cMs in response (which happens constantly), he really has to ask since if a fit exists then 4M is almost certainly better than 3n. We can choose to just blast 3N and let them guess which suit to lead, not to mention not giving them any opportunities to double/not double the likely artificial continuations that are going to ensue.

2) You can play penalty doubles after they overcall, since there's no need for negative doubles.

3) You can preempt more effectively knowing that if you have 2/1 in a major the opponents are guaranteed to have 8/9 cards there. Plus, when you do have a 4M, you can preempt 4m/5m directly knowing you're not missing 4M.

4) Without having to look for 4-4 major fits, your methods are much more free to have good constructive auctions when you want to. We play 2d as a GF relay over 2c and play TOSR, since it fits under 3N (even without the 5332 hand type thrown out).

Set against this, you have a slightly more painful life when you open 1d and they preempt. This auction isn't exactly a dream in regular precision, though, so I really don't think you're giving up very much. Not having to ever rebid 2c after 1d 1M to show d+c is nice as well, since it frees up that bid for other constructive uses.

I like these openings much better. There's a big difference between opening 2D which can be 5D/4C or 6D to opening 2D which promises 5+D/4+C. Partner has a much better idea of your hand type, knows he probably can't raise diamonds unless he has three, and can double for penalty more easily since he knows 9 or your suit cards and can assess the fit/misfit better. If I understand it right, your 2C usually promises 6 clubs...or with 5 clubs they are good enough to be treated as a 6-cd suit. So this opening is more similar than your 2D opening, but you're apparently not opening 2C with Axx x AKxx Qxxxx which seems forced by the other method.

But now i'm wondering why you prefer to open 2D with 5+D/4+C and open 6D/no major with 1D? After all, both have the advantage of denying a major but with 5D/4C you've passed 2C as a possible contract. Our 2D is 6D/no major and our 1D is nebulous but can be D/C or 4M/6D.

[mike gill]

We preferred to put the diamonds hands in 1d for several reasons, mostly that it fit better in the 1d.

1) 9+ minor suit cards is arguably more of a reason to preempt than just having 6 diamonds. Very occasionally you are too high at 2d and get a bad board, but you don't -have- to open 2d just because you're 5-4 just like we don't open 2c with 4-5 and bad clubs. This is less likely when you have 6+ diamonds, though so this is probably a wash.

2) We really like our rebid structure after 1d openers - we play that 1d 1M 2c is diamonds or a raise to 2.5 of the major (14-15 unbal w/3spt or 11-13 with 4spt and shape). 2d is 11-13 w/3spt (and shape or maybe balanced with xx in the other major) and 2M is 4spt and 11-13 bal. Also, later when you bid clubs, partner won't take it as minors.