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The good news is that we stopped them reaching the good 4♠. The bad news is that 4♥ wasn't close to making.
-300. Thoughts?
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Dealing with wide ranging preempts
#1
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Posted 2012-April-15, 22:02
The good news is that we stopped them reaching the good 4♠. The bad news is that 4♥ wasn't close to making.
-300. Thoughts?
Hi y'all!
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#2
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Posted 2012-April-16, 00:08
Phil, on 2012-April-15, 22:02, said:
The good news is that we stopped them reaching the good 4♠. The bad news is that 4♥ wasn't close to making.
-300. Thoughts?
Just a question
What is the range for 3♦?
Wayne Burrows
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
I believe that the USA currently hold only the World Championship For People Who Still Bid Like Your Auntie Gladys - dburn
dunno how to play 4 card majors - JLOGIC
True but I know Standard American and what better reason could I have for playing Precision? - Hideous Hog
Bidding is an estimation of probabilities SJ Simon
#3
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Posted 2012-April-16, 02:31
I dont like south's actions at all.
If he is going to bid 5♦ anyway, why messing arround with 3 NT ? He sees opponents have a ♠ fit. If he is going to mess arround then why 5♦ now ? Opponents didnt support each other, they bid under pressure 4♥ and probably couldnt find their best fit.
If he is going to bid 5♦ anyway, why messing arround with 3 NT ? He sees opponents have a ♠ fit. If he is going to mess arround then why 5♦ now ? Opponents didnt support each other, they bid under pressure 4♥ and probably couldnt find their best fit.
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#4
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Posted 2012-April-16, 12:21
If there is any blame it goes to south, defending with 2.25 defensive tricks aprox is not a good idea in general.
But thinking more deeply, if partner has 7 diamonds there is no room for more than half a defensive trick in his hand so defending with his hand might be the best action in the long run.
But thinking more deeply, if partner has 7 diamonds there is no room for more than half a defensive trick in his hand so defending with his hand might be the best action in the long run.
#5
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Posted 2012-April-16, 23:17
As south i would just bid 5D against most players but against weak players (look at the 4H bid by West) I think 3nt is ok. After 4H I think taking the safe is unclear. It really look like they are not in the best contract.
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For instance, he doesn't like being used as a human shield when we're being shot at.
I happen to think it's a very noble way to meet one's maker, especially for a guy like him.
Bottom line is we never let that difference of opinion interfere with anything."
#6
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Posted 2012-April-17, 01:35
The main reason to preempt on a 6322 12-count is to get the opponents into the wrong contract. The main reason to psych opposite a preempt is to get the opponents into the wrong contract. If you do this sort of thing, presumably you believe that it's an effective style, so you think that some of the time they really will reach the wrong contract. Therefore you should rarely save in this sort of auction. When they end up in your 4-card major rather than your 2-card major, you have even more reason to believe that they're in the wrong contract, so you should be even more reluctant to save.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#7
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Posted 2012-April-17, 02:11
Also, with the South hand, suppose that you're opposite a pure 6-card preempt like xxx x AQJxxx xxx. 5♦ is still going for 300, so you're only gaining 4 IMPs by saving. If he has that hand plus a trick outside, you may be beating 4♥. With seven diamonds, he might have bid 4♦. All in all, assuming that North is allowed to have the hand he had, South's decision to save is awful.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#8
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Posted 2012-April-17, 02:48
I like the auction except West's 4♥ bid and South's 5♦ bid.
Was 3NT conventional? If you play that 3NT is a save suggestion (ie opposite a pure preempt let's bid 5♦) then that's a great bid. Especially good as a passed hand which can't really need 3NT as natural. Also, I'm guessing that this is when you have the most variety in preempts. This would mean South gets to suggest the save in 5♦ (as opposed to a simple raise to 4♦ which is just space consuming. And this North hand decides not to save. South should respect the decision.
Was 3NT conventional? If you play that 3NT is a save suggestion (ie opposite a pure preempt let's bid 5♦) then that's a great bid. Especially good as a passed hand which can't really need 3NT as natural. Also, I'm guessing that this is when you have the most variety in preempts. This would mean South gets to suggest the save in 5♦ (as opposed to a simple raise to 4♦ which is just space consuming. And this North hand decides not to save. South should respect the decision.
#9
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Posted 2012-April-17, 05:21
Cascade, on 2012-April-16, 00:08, said:
Just a question
What is the range for 3♦?
What is the range for 3♦?
Not overtly discussed but it could include a ratty seven card diamond suit and not much else to a hand that doesn't expect to make game very often opposite a passed hand, so this 12 would be close to a max I think.
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#10
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Posted 2012-April-17, 07:14
Of course I agree with the others that this kind of random preempts will sometimes give you good and sometimes give you bad results. However, south's choice to first bid 3NT (as a passed hand, what is the point?) and then bid 5D after the opponents under pressure picked what could well be the wrong suit (you have J108x!) seems bad tactics. Of course it is possible that 5D is a winning sacrifice, but even in that case gnasher pointed out that you are not likely to gain a large amount of IMPs.
In the end, if you preempt more randomly with a passed partner, your partner should hold back in response.
In the end, if you preempt more randomly with a passed partner, your partner should hold back in response.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
- hrothgar
#11
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Posted 2012-April-20, 02:36
North has a textbook 2♦ overcall. It already shuts off spades and clubs so, as Esfandiari would say, "Why so much?"
South was apparently on tilt. Or maybe he's just been fed too much Law of Total Tricks stuff.
South was apparently on tilt. Or maybe he's just been fed too much Law of Total Tricks stuff.
#12
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Posted 2012-April-20, 09:00
whereagles, on 2012-April-20, 02:36, said:
South was apparently on tilt.
He's playing with me. Completely understandable.
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#13
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Posted 2012-April-20, 18:07
whereagles, on 2012-April-20, 02:36, said:
North has a textbook 2♦ overcall. It already shuts off spades and clubs so, as Esfandiari would say, "Why so much?"
South was apparently on tilt. Or maybe he's just been fed too much Law of Total Tricks stuff.
South was apparently on tilt. Or maybe he's just been fed too much Law of Total Tricks stuff.
I have run into alot of people who play intermediate jump overcalls, geared for getting to 3NT
#14
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Posted 2012-April-20, 18:16
han, on 2012-April-17, 07:14, said:
In the end, if you preempt more randomly with a passed partner, your partner should hold back in response.
That
"What's the big rebid problem? After 1♦ - 1♠, I can rebid 1NT, 2♠, or 2♦."
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Posted 2012-April-21, 02:50
I can see two variants in a non-thru-the-lookinglass world. Both start with 1♥ - 2♦ - dbl. Now, south can bid either 4♦ or 5♦. Either way, the worst N-S can do is -300 in 5♦ doubled.
#16
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Posted 2012-April-21, 07:01
jdeegan, on 2012-April-21, 02:50, said:
Both start with 1♥ - 2♦ - dbl. Now, south can bid either 4♦ or 5♦.
I'd bid 2H instead.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.
- hrothgar
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