[bluecalm]

So I got bored yesterday and started coding it, turned out to be quite simple.
I just feed it .lin files, hero pair and get full browsable FD card with actual hands for every sequence popping out if you hover on the bids.
It's early version so you are welcome to tell me what kind of info I should add (one thing is to dig out alerts from .lin files and put them in descriptions, this one is a priority)
If you want to see similar FD's for other pairs than Lauria-Versace please post here.
I combined 1/2 seat bids and 3/4 seat bids togetehr to make it more clear and easier to browse.
Also for now it only works for constructive bidding, I don't know if FD cards works for competitive bidding.

If you are a programmer and want to see the source you can PM me (it's in Python). It will be available on github one day when I stop being lazy and put there

FD card for Lauria-Versace:
http://www.qfpost.co...e/d?g=pVugYTBUs

Btw, one problem with that is that there is a lot of trash in vugraph arcvhies and many operators just insert final contract if they lose track of the bidding so it's not 100% reliable btu if you wanna see how Gazilli works for example it's quite good.

[Cthulhu D]

bluecalm, on 2012-May-13, 17:14, said:

So I got bored yesterday and started coding it, turned out to be quite simple.
I just feed it .lin files, hero pair and get full browsable FD card with actual hands for every sequence popping out if you hover on the bids.
It's early version so you are welcome to tell me what kind of info I should add (one thing is to dig out alerts from .lin files and put them in descriptions, this one is a priority)
If you want to see similar FD's for other pairs than Lauria-Versace please post here.
I combined 1/2 seat bids and 3/4 seat bids togetehr to make it more clear and easier to browse.
Also for now it only works for constructive bidding, I don't know if FD cards works for competitive bidding.

If you are a programmer and want to see the source you can PM me (it's in Python). It will be available on github one day when I stop being lazy and put there

FD card for Lauria-Versace:
http://www.qfpost.co...e/d?g=pVugYTBUs

Btw, one problem with that is that there is a lot of trash in vugraph arcvhies and many operators just insert final contract if they lose track of the bidding so it's not 100% reliable btu if you wanna see how Gazilli works for example it's quite good.

FD cards do work for competitive bidding btw.

Also, that's really cool, will have to give it a throw. I'd love to see Fantoni-Nunes and/or Meckwell's as well.

[MrAce]

If i only knew what a FD card means...

[Cthulhu D]

MrAce, on 2012-May-13, 23:18, said:

If i only knew what a FD card means...

It's 'Full Disclosure' one of the programs that comes with the Window's BBO client. Basically it's a system for comprehensively capturing system information then providing automated alerts to opponents during play. There is a forum for it down here:

http://www.bridgebas...ure-and-dealer/

It's basically a super convention card, you can click into bids and see what responses mean etc. Very nice but somewhat time consuming to create the card. However, this tool and the BSS scripting system created by Kungsgeten help the process.

I've made one for the system I use with my regular partner which is very useful for playing on BBO with a somewhat artifical system - good alerting and disclosure.

[MrAce]

Cthulhu D, on 2012-May-13, 23:48, said:

It's 'Full Disclosure' one of the programs that comes with the Window's BBO client. Basically it's a system for comprehensively capturing system information then providing automated alerts to opponents during play. There is a forum for it down here:

http://www.bridgebas...ure-and-dealer/

It's basically a super convention card, you can click into bids and see what responses mean etc. Very nice but somewhat time consuming to create the card. However, this tool and the BSS scripting system created by Kungsgeten help the process.

I've made one for the system I use with my regular partner which is very useful for playing on BBO with a somewhat artifical system - good alerting and disclosure.

Thanks.

[Mbodell]

Cthulhu D, on 2012-May-13, 18:08, said:

FD cards do work for competitive bidding btw.

Also, that's really cool, will have to give it a throw. I'd love to see Fantoni-Nunes and/or Meckwell's as well.

I think the hard part with competitive bidding is you have to know the meaning of the opponents bids as 2♦ overcall over a precision 1♦ or 1♣ might well be different than over a standard bid of the same, etc. So it is harder to auto generate the meaning just from the auction the way you likely can from the unopposed auctions (although some folks will vary by seat AND by colors, so even unopposed bidding may well have 16 different trees of bids).

[barmar]

Since FD can't give different explanations depending on the opponents' meaning, you would actually have to create and load completely different cards depending on the system of your opponents.

I think FD can have different meanings based on seat and color, but creating the card that holds all these variations will be extremely time consuming. If you use a system to automated it, it will probably need human advice to help it know when to make a particular meaning very specific or general.

[bluecalm]

I added alerts now, just hover your mouse over bids nad it will show all alerts extracted from vugraph files.
Some of them are random, some of them are useful, it's all vugraph operators actually inserted.

Quote

I'd love to see Fantoni-Nunes and/or Meckwell's as well.

Fantunes:
http://www.qfpost.co...e/d?g=gp7BpPzsP

Meckwell:
http://www.qfpost.co...e/d?g=J3OIdW1U9

Quote

If i only knew what a FD card means...

They are usually used for people to auto explain their bids on BBO but they also could be used for describing system in easy to browse way.
It's like browsable tree. For example if you want to know what hands Meckwell had for say:
1C - 1S
2H sequence you just go there and see:
"2hands, xxx yyy"
where xxx and yyy are actual hands they had for 2H bid.

Quote

Since FD can't give different explanations depending on the opponents' meaning, you would actually have to create and load completely different cards depending on the system of your opponents.

Yup but still could be fun browsing what elite players did in say:
1C - 3S - ? sequence and instantly see what cards they had for 4C/4D/4H etc. I will think about it.

One more, Lauria Versce + Sementa - Duboin in one (they play the same system) with alerts included:

http://www.qfpost.co...e/d?g=RxZXlnohN

[Zelandakh]

barmar, on 2012-May-14, 09:21, said:

Since FD can't give different explanations depending on the opponents' meaning, you would actually have to create and load completely different cards depending on the system of your opponents.

Not quite. I managed this in obvious situations by including multiple possibilities in the description:
"(if 2♣ showed majors) 5+ clubs;
(otherwise) 5+ hearts"
would be a (made-up) example.

Obviously some bids have too many possible meanings to do this for. In practise you can still do a normal BBO alert when using FD, together with a warning to the opps that the FD explanation is wrong, but that is obviously not helpful for blue's project.

[Cthulhu D]

You can also double click the FD alert and delete it I think. But yeah, I've only bothered for 1 level overcalls and 1NT which are generally natural.

[Zelandakh]

Cthulhu D, on 2012-May-15, 19:30, said:

You can also double click the FD alert and delete it I think. But yeah, I've only bothered for 1 level overcalls and 1NT which are generally natural.

The big problem I had with this method was that simply including the bids after the auction 1♣ - (X) made the convention card too large for BBO to load it. Unfortunately there was no message about this and I still received alerts as normal. Noone else at the table got them though. In practise this means it is impossible to have a fully detailed FD CC that also includes competition. It would be nice if they increased the size limit for FD at some point in the future but the change to the Flash version has probably ruled that out forever.

[Cthulhu D]

Zelandakh, on 2012-May-16, 03:25, said:

The big problem I had with this method was that simply including the bids after the auction 1♣ - (X) made the convention card too large for BBO to load it. Unfortunately there was no message about this and I still received alerts as normal. Noone else at the table got them though. In practise this means it is impossible to have a fully detailed FD CC that also includes competition. It would be nice if they increased the size limit for FD at some point in the future but the change to the Flash version has probably ruled that out forever.

Wow, okay, I have yet to strike this problem. Do you know what the limitation is? How many rounds 'deep' were your constructive auctions?

[Zelandakh]

Cthulhu D, on 2012-May-16, 04:39, said:

Wow, okay, I have yet to strike this problem. Do you know what the limitation is? How many rounds 'deep' were your constructive auctions?

This was with my relay system. The vast majority of auctions were fully completed up to 3NT with some beyond. I did not include the bids above "number of controls" though, and in later version removed the number of controls too to keep the file small enough. Ben told me that the maximum size itself is 1Mb. I do not think many natural systems will reach this unless they are including a great deal of detail in both constructive and competitive auctios.

[hrothgar]

Curious regarding the implementation

Are you gathering information from the alert strings that people provide or, alternatively, are you inspecting hand shapes and the like

[Cthulhu D]

hrothgar, on 2012-May-16, 05:33, said:

Curious regarding the implementation

Are you gathering information from the alert strings that people provide or, alternatively, are you inspecting hand shapes and the like

I'm obviously guessing, but when you pull up the file he lists all the handshapes the bids were made on, so I think he;s looking at handshapes. This leads to silly results where vugraph operators have just entered the final contracts. A few weird 6 D openersin the fantunes one for example

Quote

This was with my relay system. The vast majority of auctions were fully completed up to 3NT with some beyond. I did not include the bids above "number of controls" though, and in later version removed the number of controls too to keep the file small enough. Ben told me that the maximum size itself is 1Mb. I do not think many natural systems will reach this unless they are including a great deal of detail in both constructive and competitive auctios.

Ah okay, yeah I am still only up to including opener's rebid.