[wanoff]

imp scoring

---

This was modern Acol with 2♣ showing 9+ HCP and a 2♦ rebid is F1. If you play 3♦ or 3♠ as a splinter, how should you play; 4♣,4♦,4♠.

Unfortunately you've agreed to play 3♦/♠ as fragments so what now ?

[dake50]

4D criss-cross keys?
System you give almost forces that on you.
3xkeys continues CQ-ask (showing 5 held),
then K-show.
2xkeys to 6C (may be corrected to 6H).
0-1key to 5C quits.

[aguahombre]

Lost me at "2C=9+".

[the_clown]

wanoff, on 2012-May-27, 14:44, said:

imp scoring

---

This was modern Acol with 2♣ showing 9+ HCP and a 2♦ rebid is F1. If you play 3♦ or 3♠ as a splinter, how should you play; 4♣,4♦,4♠.

Unfortunately you've agreed to play 3♦/♠ as fragments so what now ?

How many ♣s did 2♣ show?

[Cyberyeti]

aguahombre, on 2012-May-27, 16:33, said:

Lost me at "2C=9+".

So you never come across Acol ? this is pretty standard with a variance of maybe a point either way, showing 4+ clubs normally.

I would play either 4♣ or 4♦ as ace asking (whichever I've agreed). A new suit at the 4 level that wasn't ace asking would be a void and asking for exclusion responses.

2N is a GF rebid over an Acol 2/1 if you play a weak NT, so 2N followed by 4♣ over anything partner bids is another way of handling this sort of hand if you're snookered by being unable to bid a fragment (provided you've agreed that 2N doesn't need to be balanced).

[Vampyr]

dake50, on 2012-May-27, 16:31, said:

4D criss-cross keys?

Why not 4♣ KC?

[phil_20686]

Its normally four clubs, but I have seen some old fashioned players who would bid this way with xxxx spades and KQx clubs as the "suit is not worth bidding".

It looks normal to bid 4C whether its naturural or keycard, and fwiw i dont think keycard makes sense when 3c is NF.

[dake50]

Why not 4♣ KC?
***
Mostly to keep a jump 4C raise as distributional invite
to 5C - 5C sac cheap or 5C makes.

[gszes]

my hand is more than strong enough for game
in hearts or clubs sooooooooooooooooooooooo

if 2h is forcing (I dont know) thats my choice
if 2h nf than 3h (hearts may still be best game)

There is no reason to insist on what may be a
9 card club fit (assuming it isnt a temporizing
bid and p has 3 hearts) and give up on an 8 card
heart fit or more).

The heart bids also keep the bidding lower than
jumping around in clubs in case p has visions
of slam.

[wanoff]

phil_20686, on 2012-May-28, 04:11, said:

Its normally four clubs, but I have seen some old fashioned players who would bid this way with xxxx spades and KQx clubs as the "suit is not worth bidding".

It looks normal to bid 4C whether its naturural or keycard, and fwiw i dont think keycard makes sense when 3c is NF.

Does this mean an invite as per Dake's suggestion. Currently 4♣ is a 2524 slam try but this could be shown by 1♥-2♣-3NT.
My view is that this type of fragment is really a substitute splinter and not particularly showing values in the fragment suit. So you might be xxx/x, KQx/x or even say Qx/x in the 2 suits.
To extrapolate this, why not be radical and on this hand, fragment to show one of the singletons and then cuebid the other at your next turn.