[ahydra]

Going to put this here after people mentioned Law 57A in my claim thread.

Law 57A said:

When a defender leads to the next trick before his partner has played to the current trick or plays out of turn before his partner has played, the card so led or played becomes a major penalty card...

So what happens if East (a defender) is on lead, leads a card and before South has played, West plays a card? This doesn't come under 57A and I couldn't find any other relevant laws (all the "out of turn" laws referred to leads, not plays subsequent to a lead).

I guess having no penalty prescribed in Law for this is OK from declarer's point of view because he can pick his card according to both defenders' cards (say West put the Ace on the trick, South could play small where he would otherwise finesse). My worry here is that, like playing a card with emphasis if you want partner to get the signal, this is tramsitting UI (e.g. quick card = likely singleton). Also players shouldn't really see playing out of turn as an "OK thing to do" because there's no penalty.

Did I miss a Law, or are people allowed to play out of turn?

ahydra

[Lanor Fow]

If your worry is UI, that is covered under the UI laws without the need for another law. As your situation doesn't damage anyone, I'm not surpised that given the Laws primary function is to restore equity, there isn't a punishment for this,

[pran]

 ahydra, on 2012-May-17, 11:32, said:

Going to put this here after people mentioned Law 57A in my claim thread.



So what happens if East (a defender) is on lead, leads a card and before South has played, West plays a card? This doesn't come under 57A and I couldn't find any other relevant laws (all the "out of turn" laws referred to leads, not plays subsequent to a lead).

I guess having no penalty prescribed in Law for this is OK from declarer's point of view because he can pick his card according to both defenders' cards (say West put the Ace on the trick, South could play small where he would otherwise finesse). My worry here is that, like playing a card with emphasis if you want partner to get the signal, this is tramsitting UI (e.g. quick card = likely singleton). Also players shouldn't really see playing out of turn as an "OK thing to do" because there's no penalty.

Did I miss a Law, or are people allowed to play out of turn?

ahydra

If we still are talking about trick twelve the play by West (while being premature) leaves each defender with just one card left, so neither Law 57 nor Laws 68 thru 70 are of any importance for determining the final result on the board.

Earlier in the play West has simply played (prematurely) before South to the trick and may not withdraw his played card after seeing the card South eventually plays to that trick.

I see no problem here.

[AlexJonson]

 pran, on 2012-May-17, 15:08, said:

If we still are talking about trick twelve the play by West (while being premature) leaves each defender with just one card left, so neither Law 57 nor Laws 68 thru 70 are of any importance for determining the final result on the board.

Earlier in the play West has simply played (prematurely) before South to the trick and may not withdraw his played card after seeing the card South eventually plays to that trick.

I see no problem here.

Why do you think it is trick 12.

[ahydra]

 AlexJonson, on 2012-May-17, 15:29, said:

Why do you think it is trick 12.

Because I referenced the other thread in which the play out of turn (if it was such) was at trick 12. However I meant this thread as more general.

ahydra

[barmar]

Doesn't Law 49 "Exposure of a defender's cards" cover this? It begins with "Except in the normal course of play", and playing out of turn is not the normal course of play, so this law applies.

[pran]

 barmar, on 2012-May-17, 20:17, said:

Doesn't Law 49 "Exposure of a defender's cards" cover this? It begins with "Except in the normal course of play", and playing out of turn is not the normal course of play, so this law applies.

Sure it does.
And if West's play is legal except for the fact that it is premature it stands regardless of whicdh card South plays to the trick. (Otherwise West's played card becomes a major penalty card.)

I still see no problem here.

[iviehoff]

 pran, on 2012-May-17, 23:48, said:

I still see no problem here.

In some cases there can potentially be an inappropriate communication/UI problem. "Look, I don't even need to see what declarer plays before I play this."

[pran]

 iviehoff, on 2012-May-18, 03:09, said:

In some cases there can potentially be an inappropriate communication/UI problem. "Look, I don't even need to see what declarer plays before I play this."

Anything a player does creates UI one way ot another. Most of such UI creates no problem and is not reacted upon at all (but it is still UI).

West playing prematurely (before South) to a trick to which the lead was by East is no exception and constitutes no problem on its own. If East subsequently acts (improperly) on the information that West played prematurely (whatever such information could be) we have Law 16 to take care of that situation.