[Mbodell]

---

South can relay with 4♦ over 4♣ to find out the location of the controls. South can sign off over 3♥ without asking with a terrible minimum 1♣ hand. If N pulls 5♣, the agreement is probably that 5♦ would show 0 or 2 of the top spades and a lot of quacks or some reason for questioning S stopping at 5♣ (over which 5♥ would continue to ask, with no real space to get much and everything else would be to play), but there is some chance a "naturalish" 5♠ pull might make more sense.

Edited to correct that 1♥ shows 4+ spades, not 5+ spades.

This post has been edited by Mbodell: 2012-May-20, 01:18

[mike777]

so as I understand it I have shown:

AKJxxx

xxx


x


xxx

so I need to bid more now.


6s now I guess.

btw cant I break the relay somehow and show this hand type as some point?

[Mbodell]

mike777, on 2012-May-19, 18:39, said:

6s now I guess.

btw cant I break the relay somehow and show this hand type as some point?

You can't break the relay until partner tries to sign off, usually that will be either by partner bidding 3nt or partner bidding 4♦ which would "force" 4♥ (except when you break relay) allowing partner to place the contract (except when you break relay). With the 4♣ control auction we don't have that room as now 4♦ starts denial cue scans and everything else is natural sign off to play.

Partner could have, at one time, broken the relay over 1♥ with a stiff or void in spades and describe his hand, but these relay breaks came up too infrequently to remember, so we don't use them now.

So with partner driving every bid is forced (unless I want to lie about shape or controls) until the 5♣ call.

[mike777]

Mbodell, on 2012-May-20, 01:17, said:

You can't break the relay until partner tries to sign off, usually that will be either by partner bidding 3nt or partner bidding 4♦ which would "force" 4♥ (except when you break relay) allowing partner to place the contract (except when you break relay). With the 4♣ control auction we don't have that room as now 4♦ starts denial cue scans and everything else is natural sign off to play.

Partner could have, at one time, broken the relay over 1♥ with a stiff or void in spades and describe his hand, but these relay breaks came up too infrequently to remember, so we don't use them now.

So with partner driving every bid is forced (unless I want to lie about shape or controls) until the 5♣ call.

ok I bid 6s but I fully grant we can be off 2 top hearts/

[gszes]

hard to imagine a hand where 5c is superior to 5s
and p has no clue we have a solid suit. We cannot
bid 6c since we have no clue if there are 2 heart
losers off the top but we can certainly tell p about
our wonderful spade suit. Who knows where the contact
will go from there but we have most likely improved
our score (especially after x club ruff heart club
ruff heart club ruff sigh)

[Codo]

I would rebid 5 ♠. There are few hands (club ruffs) which are worse in 5 ♠, but you have a bonus: If partner has enough controls but not enough tricks, he may can bid slam now.

[gnasher]

gszes, on 2012-May-20, 09:47, said:

hard to imagine a hand where 5c is superior to 5s

Not that hard: x AK KQJ KQJxxxx

[han]

Seems like this is a position where partner could have asked more if slam was still possible. It's like partner bidding blackwood, finding we miss two aces and signs off, then we bid slam because we have such nice queens. It doesn't work like that.

Bidding 5S is worth some thought.