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Well, I botched this one . . . . . . and I should have made it; can you do any better?

#1 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-August-19, 15:56

My hand:

J
Q 10 x
K J x
A K Q x x x

The bidding (I was South):

S------W------N------E
1 - (P) - 1 - (P)
3NT - (P) - 6NT - (Dbl.)
P - (P) - P

The opening lead is a low , and this dummy appears:

A Q x x x
K x x x
A
J x x

So, how do you play 6NT?

(Thirty-one IMPs are on the line.)
BCIII

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Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
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#2 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-August-19, 16:03

TWO Aces
Edit: I see corrected now ....

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2012-August-19, 16:07

Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

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#3 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-August-19, 16:06

View PostTWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-August-19, 16:03, said:

TWO Aces

Fixed.

(But if I'd gone down with 2 diamond aces, I'd be even angrier with myself.)
BCIII

"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."

Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
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#4 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-August-19, 16:11

I can count 12 tricks if 2 finesses work:
for the J and K ....

2s, 2h, 2d, 6c
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#5 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-August-19, 16:12

View PostTWO4BRIDGE, on 2012-August-19, 16:11, said:

I can count 12 tricks if 2 finesses work:
for the J and K ....

2s, 2h, 2d, 6c

RHO has K (guarded) and A J x x
BCIII

"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."

Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
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#6 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2012-August-19, 16:56

given that righty is known to have the K and the ace for the double, I'd probably also play him for the jack, which, if he has it and I can read the position at the end, I am cold to make.

Low to the T, club up to the J, low heart to the Q. Now running 5 clubs pitching 3 spades from dummy. Righty has to come down to 4 cards, the K of spades, the ace of hearts, and two others. If he has 4 hearts and the Q of diamonds, he is forced specifically to come down to K Ax Q, and I'm making an overtrick. Otherwise I have a guess in the end position.

Righty will also have something to say about Lightner doubles, I expect.
Chris Gibson
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#7 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-August-19, 17:12

View PostCSGibson, on 2012-August-19, 16:56, said:

given that righty is known to have the K and the ace for the double, I'd probably also play him for the jack, which, if he has it and I can read the position at the end, I am cold to make.

Low to the T, club up to the J, low heart to the Q. Now running 5 clubs pitching 3 spades from dummy. Righty has to come down to 4 cards, the K of spades, the ace of hearts, and two others. If he has 4 hearts and the Q of diamonds, he is forced specifically to come down to K Ax Q, and I'm making an overtrick. Otherwise I have a guess in the end position.

It turns out that LHO has the Q; think about what happens when you cash the K.

(I was a moron: i didn't finesse the 10.)
BCIII

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Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
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#8 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-August-19, 18:39

View PostS2000magic, on 2012-August-19, 17:12, said:

It turns out that LHO has the Q; think about what happens when you cash the K.

(I was a moron: i didn't finesse the 10.)

There is no guess, you come down to (spots and W hand irrelevant)



When you lead the K and pitch a heart, E can pitch a heart and be thrown in with the A to lead away from K, or pitch a spade and have his K dropped. Bog standard strip squeeze.
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#9 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2012-August-19, 18:51

View PostCyberyeti, on 2012-August-19, 18:39, said:

There is no guess

There's no guess if RHO follows to the second heart with a low one, but if he plays the jack (which he should) you have a problem.
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#10 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-August-19, 18:53

View PostCyberyeti, on 2012-August-19, 18:39, said:

There is no guess, you come down to (spots and W hand irrelevant)



When you lead the K and pitch a heart, E can pitch a heart and be thrown in with the A to lead away from K, or pitch a spade and have his K dropped. Bog standard strip squeeze.

Exactly!

(I didn't know what it was called, but I knew that it was cool.)

Good analysis.

(Would you have finessed the 10?)

Ps - how do you get that diagram?
BCIII

"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."

Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
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#11 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-August-20, 04:32

View Postrogerclee, on 2012-August-19, 18:51, said:

There's no guess if RHO follows to the second heart with a low one, but if he plays the jack (which he should) you have a problem.

I think LHO will often play a true count card on the first heart here, partner might want to know if declarer had Q10 bare or Q10x. He might be more likely to do this if he didn't know you had a lot of clubs, I really dislike the 3N bid, how are you going to enjoy 3N opposite partner's usual AJxxx, Jxx, xxxx, x ? We'd have started 1-1-1N (15-bad 19) and it would not have been so obvious.
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#12 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-August-20, 04:35

View PostS2000magic, on 2012-August-19, 18:53, said:

Ps - how do you get that diagram?

On my browser when you hit reply, the symbol at the far right of the bars on the left ( on a white background between 2 red bars) brings up the hand diagram window)
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#13 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-August-20, 04:48

Why is this in the expert forum? You are playing with a beginner against beginners, and the play problem is intermediate-advanced level.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#14 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2012-August-20, 04:49

View PostS2000magic, on 2012-August-19, 18:53, said:

Good analysis.
(Would you have finessed the 10?)

No, neither am I impressed by the analysis.

East is marked with A and the K and from the opening lead with the Q
The one card he need not have is the J. If he does he will come under pressure anyway.
Just run clubs.
In the six card ending East is very likely to come down to


where East second heart could be the jack. You now lead a heart to the king.
To create a problem for declarer East must returns a low heart. Now you must take a decision whether East is good enough to have come down instead precisely to


If yes, finesse now. If no (true for most defenders) put up the Q
Bingo, if West had originally Jx (or J singleton) or discarded some hearts.
If West originally had the J and at least 3 hearts precise defense will beat me.
Against most defenders in my experience this is the exception rather than the rule.

Rainer Herrmann
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#15 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2012-August-20, 05:03

Rainer, he doesn't need the Q or the J, he's doubled in the hope of getting a spade lead (dummy's first suit) which indeed beats the slam.
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#16 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-August-20, 05:05

Also, west, a beginner, led a low diamond. That's unlikely from 6 small.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#17 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2012-August-20, 05:06

View PostCyberyeti, on 2012-August-20, 05:03, said:

Rainer, he doesn't need the Q or the J, he's doubled in the hope of getting a spade lead (dummy's first suit) which indeed beats the slam.

And you believe West would lead a diamond from the queen against 6NT after partner's double?
Well if West is a novice you maybe right, but otherwise even mediocre tournament players don't do this in my experience.

Rainer Herrmann
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#18 User is offline   S2000magic 

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Posted 2012-August-20, 05:08

View Posthan, on 2012-August-20, 04:48, said:

Why is this in the expert forum? You are playing with a beginner against beginners, and the play problem is intermediate-advanced level.

I guessed where to put it; my mistake.
BCIII

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Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
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#19 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-August-20, 05:22

View PostS2000magic, on 2012-August-19, 15:56, said:

My hand:

J
Q 10 x
K J x
A K Q x x x

The bidding (I was South):

S------W------N------E
1 - (P) - 1 - (P)
3NT - (P) - 6NT - (Dbl.)
P - (P) - P

The opening lead is a low , and this dummy appears:

A Q x x x
K x x x
A
J x x

So, how do you play 6NT?

(Thirty-one IMPs are on the line.)


Double in this situation is asking for a spade lead, so I would play for two hearts two diamonds 6 clubs and we should have a squeeze of some kind if the the hearts don't break. At trick two play a low heart to the ten, if this holds cross back and play a heart to the queen.
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#20 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-August-20, 05:33

For once i disagree with rainer: Rho can just keep three hearts one diamond and Kx of spades. Even if they return the Q of diamonds, you will still be forced to take the heart finesse.



Suppose now you play a heart to the K, rho wins and returns a diamond, and you have 6 clubs 1s 1h 3d, and still need another. To do right in this position you need to guess whether to cash the diamond before playing a heart to the K. Then, if you guess this right, you still need to guess whether they bared the spade K, which will not be hart play to find.
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