[wyman]

2N - 3D (--> ♥)
3H - 4D
4N - 5D
5S

2N 20-21
4N to play (does anyone think it's not?).

Does 5S exist here?

edit: This is MP. I didn't add this edit until after the first 2 replies.

[Bbradley62]

I would call 4N "natural", not "to play", since responder is in charge of what level we get to.

5♠ means "sorry for master-minding, partner; I should have bid spades earlier".

[Hanoi5]

I would say it asks for the trump queen if 3♥ showed fit. It asks partner to bid 5NT if there's no agreement to having a fit.

[wyman]

 Bbradley62, on 2011-October-07, 13:56, said:

I would call 4N "natural", not "to play", since responder is in charge of what level we get to.

5♠ means "sorry for master-minding, partner; I should have bid spades earlier".

When earlier?
In the system we're playing:
3S after 3D is a superaccept [should it be something else?]
4S after 4D is a cuebid

[wyman]

 Hanoi5, on 2011-October-07, 14:14, said:

I would say it asks for the trump queen if 3♥ showed fit. It asks partner to bid 5NT if there's no agreement to having a fit.

3H showed "not a superaccept." It did not imply 3H, and if my understanding is correct, 4N should show exactly 2 hearts and 3 diamonds

[wyman]

Very sorry for the omission -- this is MPs.

[sasioc]

If my p bid it I would interpret it as "I have woken up and realised I am suitable for slam". I have no idea if this is sensible or not but would wonder if p had four low diamonds and was trying to play in NT because it was MPs, although they may well have cued 4S on that hand. This said, I'm not sure I can think of a hand that is suddenly suitable for slam facing a 5 5 and could not have bid differently at some previous point.

[Bbradley62]

Is 5♦ something other than "pick a red suit at the 5 level"?

[Bbradley62]

 wyman, on 2011-October-07, 14:18, said:

3H showed "not a superaccept." It did not imply 3H, and if my understanding is correct, 4N should show exactly 2 hearts and 3 diamonds

but not 4225 or 5224?

[gszes]

I think the 5d bid has revealed a ten card
dia fit and dramatically improved the opening
2n hand. Opener invites 7d with the following
hands.

bid 5h with

AKx
Kx
Kxxxx
AKx

bid 5s with

AKQ
Kx
Kxxxx
KQx

5n with

Axx
AK
Qxxxx
AKx

bid 6c with

KQx
Kx
Kxxxx
AKQ

these bid invite responder to bid 7d with the appropriate type of hand


I seriously doubt this is a standard treatment
since not a lot of hands like this crop up it is
just a treatment I like.

[Bbradley62]

 gszes, on 2011-October-07, 14:28, said:

I think the 5d bid has revealed a ten card dia fit..

I think you either misread the auction or mis-spoke here...

[Hanoi5]

When I said 5♠ asks responder to bid 5NT Imeant it in case 4NT was asking for aces. But since 5♦ is natural 5♠ could be natural as mentioned earlier.

[wyman]

 Bbradley62, on 2011-October-07, 14:27, said:

but not 4225 or 5224?

sure, this is possible also. My apologies for using the word 'exactly.'

[JLOGIC]

5D to me shows 5 hearts and 6 diamonds non forcing.

I do not think that partner can logically be trying for 7 when 4N was not only not forcing, but a pretty strong statement about the crappiness of hand/solidity of blacksuit stoppers, and 5D is not only not forcing, but a pretty strong statement about how weak the hand is (it doesn't want to play 4N, a hand with 5 hearts and 6 diamonds could be pretty weak to bid this way).

I would say "does not exist" or more likely "the 5S bidder thinks something else is happening than I do on this hand."

[JLOGIC]

The suggestion of natural reminds me of that famous brad/fred hand. With Brad I probably would take it as natural actually. I guess natural is correct, but with most players it would be far more likely they'd never open 2N and want to bid 5S naturally, and thus more likely that we're having a misunderstanding.

[the hog]

5D is to play or bid 5H for me. I agree that 5H and 6/7Ds is a likely scenario. 5S is off with the Nuckalaveys.

[aguahombre]

Assuming for the moment we are not having a misunderstanding (per JL):

We didn't have a super-accept of hearts, and 4NT was to play and without four diamonds (We didn't cue 4S/4D or raise them).

IMO, after 5D opener is now cuebidding spades for diamonds after responder insisted on red suit play.

[the hog]

 aguahombre, on 2011-October-07, 19:22, said:

Assuming for the moment we are not having a misunderstanding (per JL):

We didn't have a super-accept of hearts, and 4NT was to play and without four diamonds (We didn't cue 4S/4D or raise them).

IMO, after 5D opener is now cuebidding spades for diamonds after responder insisted on red suit play.

I suspect that is what the bidder meant. However does it make sense? Responder has suggested a 5 level contract in Ds. opener is now forcing to 6 with 5S. Has opener found an extra D or Aces previously hidden behind his cards?

[wank]

my guess would be opener's got a selection of honours in the reds but no length and has now realised his honours are the nuts when respodner has 11+ red cards

something like this

---

[whereagles]

You can use the bid to ask for the queen of trumps, regardless of how many keys responder might have.