[mr1303]

---

I was North. Director ruled green psyche, no adjustment (EBU land).

My comment was more about the opponents attitude. They had been playing for many years, but proceeded to lecture me as to how unethical it was to psyche on a club night.

It is attitudes like this that make me dislike playing club bridge.

[BunnyGo]

Not only green psyche, but likely a revealed green psyche. Do they need you to stand on your chair and shout "PSYCHE!" for them to think about it?

[TimG]

mr1303, on 2012-November-14, 11:52, said:

My comment was more about the opponents attitude. They had been playing for many years, but proceeded to lecture me as to how unethical it was to psyche on a club night.

It is attitudes like this that make me dislike playing club bridge.

They are in the majority. And, are probably telling their friends about the guy who psyched against them and explaining that it is players like you that make them wonder about continuing to play in clubs.

[kenrexford]

My suggestion:

Pick some other call. Maybe Stayman. Then, complain noticeably whenever anyone bids Stayman. Suggest that it is unethical and almost cheating. Get angry about it. Start muttering so that people can hear you about how such-and-such pair keeps bidding Stayman, and how they should not be allowed to do that. Maybe even ask questions, with a noticeable tone of voice, every time someone bids 2♣. E.g., 2♣ opening ("Is THAT STAYMAN?"), 1♠-P-2♣ ("Does he really have clubs, or is that S-T-A-Y-M-A-N????"), stuff like that. You might even call the director for a ruling on whether Stayman is legal, and then be noticably upset if it is. Maybe ask for a suggested defense to Stayman.

[billw55]

kenrexford, on 2012-November-14, 14:24, said:

My suggestion:

Pick some other call. Maybe Stayman. Then, complain noticeably whenever anyone bids Stayman. Suggest that it is unethical and almost cheating. Get angry about it. Start muttering so that people can hear you about how such-and-such pair keeps bidding Stayman, and how they should not be allowed to do that. Maybe even ask questions, with a noticeable tone of voice, every time someone bids 2♣. E.g., 2♣ opening ("Is THAT STAYMAN?"), 1♠-P-2♣ ("Does he really have clubs, or is that S-T-A-Y-M-A-N????"), stuff like that. You might even call the director for a ruling on whether Stayman is legal, and then be noticably upset if it is. Maybe ask for a suggested defense to Stayman.

We get the joke, but I suspect plenty of club players would not.

To mr1303: a fine tactical psych that worked. Is your top score worth riling up the pensioners? That is up to you.

You might try explaining the risk involved, and that next time your partner might jump to 4♠ and go -1700. But I doubt you would get very far with that.

[Cascade]

1. I dislike the EBU approach to colour coded psyches

2. I think players should be allowed to psyche

3. I can't fully understand why this psyche is green

4. north appears to have voluntarily bid 3♣ after partner raised spades. I am pretty sure this would normally be treated as a game try not a correction to the denomination - although it maybe possible to play it constructive and non-forcing. South has a non-minimum and took no further action. Yes its not a particularly good non-minimum but given the EBU rules red or amber seem more appropriate to me than green. I would like to know something of the frequency of north-south psyches in this and similar situations and what exactly their agreement about the 3♣ bid was in this sequence.

[TimG]

Cascade, on 2012-November-14, 15:16, said:

4. north appears to have voluntarily bid 3♣ after partner raised spades. I am pretty sure this would normally be treated as a game try not a correction to the denomination - although it maybe possible to play it constructive and non-forcing. South has a non-minimum and took no further action. Yes its not a particularly good non-minimum but given the EBU rules red or amber seem more appropriate to me than green. I would like to know something of the frequency of north-south psyches in this and similar situations and what exactly their agreement about the 3♣ bid was in this sequence.

I suspect most hands where responder has enough to invite, he would have started with redouble.

[the hog]

TimG, on 2012-November-14, 16:21, said:

I suspect most hands where responder has enough to invite, he would have started with redouble.

Redoubling with a fit? Well maybe in a club game I suppose.

[StevenG]

The average club player just wants a gentle game of logic, and constructive bidding sequences are something they might get right once in a while; certainly, waiting for a good hand is what makes the tedium of defending bearable. If opponents mess that one good hand up by psyching, it spoils their game. Defending against psyches is like doing a Sudoku where the newspaper has misprinted one of the numbers - the logic falls apart and the whole thing becomes a waste of time.

Quite frankly it's only the ultra-competitive who psych at club level anyway (other than amongst themselves, where it's not a problem). If you're not willing to accept that most players are there for primarily social reasons, and you're not interested in trying to keep their evening enjoyable, why go?

[32519]

mr1303, on 2012-November-14, 11:52, said:

Director ruled green psyche, no adjustment (EBU land).

What's a green psyche?
How many colours are there?
I thought a psyche was just that, a psyche.

[mgoetze]

mr1303, on 2012-November-14, 11:52, said:

My comment was more about the opponents attitude. They had been playing for many years, but proceeded to lecture me as to how unethical it was to psyche on a club night.

Don't take it personally. I'm sure they were actually just upset at themselves for not playing strong jump overcalls, which would have let them avoid this problem handily.

[paulg]

mr1303, on 2012-November-14, 11:52, said:

It is attitudes like this that make me dislike playing club bridge.

There's always BBO, but I expect you'll get a similar reaction a lot of the time.

[NickRW]

32519, on 2012-November-15, 06:03, said:

What's a green psyche?
How many colours are there?
I thought a psyche was just that, a psyche.

Yes, a psyche is a psyche. However, in EBU land, a director may need to think about whether it is considered to be a "green", "amber" or "red" psyche. The details are buried somewhere in the orange book or the white book - basically "green" is innocent - partner wasn't in on it, didn't field it sort of thing. Red being the opposite.

[NickRW]

StevenG, on 2012-November-15, 05:05, said:

The average club player just wants a gentle game of logic,....

In my experience you can get really quite offended reactions out of psyching quality players too

Nick

[barmar]

The description of EBU's color coding can be found in section 6B of the Orange Book. It refers to whether partner's action after the psyche (i.e. whether he "fielded" it) suggests that there may be an undisclosed agreement regarding it.

Quote

6 B 3 A partnership’s actions on one board may be sufficient for the TD to find that it has an
unauthorised understanding and the score will be adjusted in principle (see 6 D). This
is classified as a Red psyche.

6 B 4 A TD may find that whilst there is some evidence of an unauthorised understanding it is
not sufficient, of itself, to justify an adjusted score. This is classified as an Amber
psyche. In particular, if both partners psyche on the same hand, then a classification of
at least Amber is likely to be justified.

6 B 5 In the majority of cases the TD will find nothing untoward and classify it as a Green
psyche.

I'm with Cascade -- South has a non-minimum, there seems to be a double fit, and he has a ruffing value in diamonds. The only flaw is QJx in the opponents' suit.

Furthermore, you seem to have been expecting him to take this as a weak correction, not a game try. Don't psychers usually wait until they've been doubled before running like this?

[blackshoe]

32519, on 2012-November-15, 06:03, said:

What's a green psyche?
How many colours are there?
I thought a psyche was just that, a psyche.

A green psych is one that's not ripe yet.

Actually, in the EBU regulation there are three colors:
Green: there is no indication of a CPU.
Amber: maybe there was a CPU, but the evidence isn't strong enough to rule there was.
Red: There was (probably?) a CPU. The TD awards an ArtAS.

I don't think the reg actually refers to CPUs; I'm paraphrasing.

As I understand it, all three colors are supposed to be recorded. In theory this would mean that a TD can look at the database of recorded psychs to see if there have been other similar psychs by the same pair recently. IIRC, if there are two amber psychs in close proximity time-wise, both are changed to red.

[lamford]

barmar, on 2012-November-15, 10:44, said:

The description of EBU's color coding can be found in section 6B of the Orange Book. It refers to whether partner's action after the psyche (i.e. whether he "fielded" it) suggests that there may be an undisclosed agreement regarding it.

I'm with Cascade -- South has a non-minimum, there seems to be a double fit, and he has a ruffing value in diamonds. The only flaw is QJx in the opponents' suit.

Furthermore, you seem to have been expecting him to take this as a weak correction, not a game try. Don't psychers usually wait until they've been doubled before running like this?

I agree. I would rate this as somewhere between red and carmine. North has made a game-try, presumably, with 3C and South gives in to 4H with QJx and only three spades? Normally one would expect the favourable opponents to be jokers. But here South thought his partner was, no doubt because of previous experience.

[barmar]

Another piece of evidence that South suspected that North was weak: he didn't double 4♥. He can see three likely tricks in his hand, and a partner who has invited is likely to have a defensive trick or two in his hand. At this vulnerability, doubling at pairs should be almost automatic -- undoubled, they can afford to go down 2 against your part score.

[twoshy]

If South has a non-minimum for this auction then I'd like to see what a minimum is. He has raised on ♠Txx opposite a passed hand. Assuming silent opponents, I would have passed a 1♠ response without the ♥J. Calling ♦KQ a "ruffing value" and three small spades a "double fit" when spades are just about guaranteed to split badly on this auction is just poor judgement IMO. LHO didn't raise hearts so is more likely to have three hearts rather than four, while RHO didn't open a weak two so is likely to only have 5♥. I think that you have two heart losers most of the time and your "ruffing value" in diamonds is possibly opposite a doubleton. As for doubling 4♥ opposite a normal 3♣ bid... I wouldn't expect more than one off, and the contract making is definitely a possibility. That ♦KQ is a horrible holding under the doubler.

However, it would be useful to know what 3♣ normally means, especially by a passed hand in this non-support double partnership. Constructive and non-forcing is certainly playable. It would also be useful to know if North-South play Muiderberg.

[steve2005]

mgoetze, on 2012-November-15, 06:27, said:

Don't take it personally. I'm sure they were actually just upset at themselves for not playing strong jump overcalls, which would have let them avoid this problem handily.

even a simple 1♠overcall would have worked out ok.
Also what does double of 2♠ mean. i suggest that if it doesnt show good spades your just asking for jokers to psyche