[silvr bull]

Vul vs. not, IMPs. Playing with a good partner, but against random BBO opponents
What is your choice for South to bid after a weak two when there is no good bid available?

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[Fluffy]

there is no good bid avaible? my problem is I have 2 good bids avaible, but double is better than 2NT because the stopper is quite feble, and our strenght is subminimum

[gwnn]

Bridge becomes much easier when these doubles don't promise 4 spades...

[Codo]

I would never bid 2 NT in 3. seat with this hand. So I would pass if I cannot double, but luckily, I can.

[wyman]

Double is clear imo. You have a flexible hand, short hearts, and opening values. I'd also recommend playing Lebensohl after TOX of weak 2M, which will sort out most of your objections to partner not knowing whether or not we have 4oM.

[phil_20686]

Dble is clear. No second choice.

[neilkaz]

Double.. WTP?

[the hog]

I would double, but would not crime a conservative pass.

[JLOGIC]

I'd crime all over it

[silvr bull]

Few here seem to share my discomfort with double. I did double at the table, but only because the other alternatives seemed to be worse. Double is an invitation for partner to bid ♠, and he accepted that invitation by bidding 2♠. The pain continues. What do I do next? If partner holds something like ♠Jxxxx ♥xxx ♦KJx ♣Qx or better, we will have a marginal play for game if I raise. On the other hand, if partner holds ♠xxxx ♥Txxx ♦Qxx ♣Qx or worse, 2♠ could already be too high, so I must pass. The nightmare here is partner could hold ♠Jxx ♥xxxxx ♦Jxx ♣Jx. I typed an apology to partner in the chat box before I could see his hand when the opening lead hit the table.

In retrospect, I think Pass over 2♥ is the best way for us to get to game if we have reasonable prospects for making it. After P 2♥ P P, partner is likely to balance with most hands I can see as having a good play for 4♠ (or possibly even 3NT), and after passing 2♥, I can bid more aggressively in support. I now cast a lonely vote for pass.

For those who like results, the full hand is below. Partner played better than the opponents defended, and he took 9 tricks. Thanks for all the comments.

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[Fluffy]

 silvr bull, on 2012-November-19, 06:37, said:

Double is an invitation for partner to bid ♠

Double is an invitation for partner to bid his longest suit outside hearts. We call it take out double. It shows 3+ cards on unbid suits

Pass is obvious after double. With balanced hands use Milton Work tables instead of creating hands for partner, it will work better and save your brain cells.

[Codo]

I am sure that pass is obvious after 2 ♠ and that is what you meant.

About your idea of passing:

Passing -instead of the double- here had lead to a making 2 ♥ -110 (or even worse) and bidding had lead to +110 (or better). 2 NT would have been set after a normal defence- but often done against careless defence.

[phil_20686]

 silvr bull, on 2012-November-19, 06:37, said:

In retrospect, I think Pass over 2♥ is the best way for us to get to game if we have reasonable prospects for making it. After P 2♥ P P, partner is likely to balance with most hands I can see as having a good play for 4♠ (or possibly even 3NT), and after passing 2♥, I can bid more aggressively in support. I now cast a lonely vote for pass.

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You really cannot think like this. If partner has a decent hand with spade length he will have no way to reenter the auction. What about : AJxx QJxx x AQxx?

Are you now saying that partner has to double on these hands, and risk a 3D call, just because you can't bring yourself to enter the auction with t/o shape and a 16 count?

That is not even the disaster scenario. The disaster scenario is when it goes 2H P 4H AP, and partner had Axxxx Qx xxx AQx

You could be making 4S and unable to either to penalise 4H or bid 4S.

5332 with shortage in their suit is a routine t/o double. Especially 2335 over 1S, you should be doubling routinely rather than bid 2m. With five hearts you should bid 2H when your hearts are good. Overcalling instead of making a t/o double is a routine mistake made by intermediate players on these hands, and it really does cost you (a lot) imps in the long run.

EDIT: Also, double gained you 7 imps here, you cannot beat 2H, and even holding it to tick requires you to get two diamond ruffs, which is far from clear to achieve. 2S looks cold despite the 5-1 trump break, and you are acting like this was a bad hand for the method: This was win for the method. 2S is the best spot, and there is no way to play there unless you double.

[helene_t]

Phil, partner is a passed hand. I would double, too, but the fact that partner is a passed hand makes pass a little less repulsive.

[Jinksy]

 silvr bull, on 2012-November-19, 06:37, said:

The nightmare here is partner could hold ♠Jxx ♥xxxxx ♦Jxx ♣Jx. I typed an apology to partner in the chat box before I could see his hand when the opening lead hit the table.

If partner has that hand, either RHO has made a very heavy preempt or LHO got one of his aces stuck to the back of another card.

[Fluffy]

my partner opened once 1♦ with 14 balanced and went -1400, nightmare scenarios on your fist bid are not very useful.