[Bbradley62]

I don't understand a fair bit of this convention card conversation. Twenty years ago, everyone had a $2 plastic convention card holder (which you frequently even got for free in your goodie bag when you signed in at a regional). The "front" side was a clear plastic compartment to protect and display your convention card, which you should have completely filled out (with your partner, so that they matched). The "back" side was for your scorecard for the current session. Most of us always had enough papers crammed into the thing (convention cards filled out with other partners, etc) that there was no chance to fold it; it just sat flat on the table. Is this not how things are done any more? The info is there for opponents to see, no one would walk off with someone else's convention card, etc. Why is this hard? http://shop6.mailord...ductinfo/7551R/

[blackshoe]

In my neck of the woods, some people use the "holder" method you describe. These folks usually put the card on the corner of the table to their right, under the bidding box. Some people have a "binder" which has the CCs, folded in half, in individual pockets, plus a space for a score card (you can buy them in pads, sized to fit, or fold one in half so it fits). Again these folks usually put their cards under their bidding box. Some players have one or two hand written cards (which may or may not match). No telling where you'll find those. Some pairs have only one card, often illegible. Might be on the table, might be in his pocket, or her purse. Some folks just grab a card off the director's table right before the game, and don't bother to fill out the CC side. Some folks have hand-crafted CCs (usually using a spreadsheet). In one case these are laminated - and kept in one of the afore-mentioned holders.

The bottom line is that even those who try to comply with the regulation often get it wrong. And way too many just don't bother. After all, not following the reg isn't going to hurt them, so wtp?

[Mbodell]

Bbradley62, on 2012-December-07, 12:59, said:

I don't understand a fair bit of this convention card conversation. Twenty years ago, everyone had a $2 plastic convention card holder (which you frequently even got for free in your goodie bag when you signed in at a regional). The "front" side was a clear plastic compartment to protect and display your convention card, which you should have completely filled out (with your partner, so that they matched). The "back" side was for your scorecard for the current session. Most of us always had enough papers crammed into the thing (convention cards filled out with other partners, etc) that there was no chance to fold it; it just sat flat on the table. Is this not how things are done any more? The info is there for opponents to see, no one would walk off with someone else's convention card, etc. Why is this hard? http://shop6.mailord...ductinfo/7551R/

This is what I do. If the table is crowded the convention card might be on the floor standing up with the half fold resting around the table leg. I'll of course give it to an opponent who asks.

I think part of the issue though is convention cards, even in these holders, are used primarily for partnership discussion/remembering and also for keeping your private score, and the opponents being able to look at it is only a tertiary at best benefit (in practice).

[aguahombre]

If you aren't using a holder, the Folded CC will fit wedged in the little gap on the corner of the table (between the soft surface and the frame of a folding card table) and is visible to be used by the opponent.

[Trinidad]

I get the idea that in America everything is much bigger... except for bridge tables since it is impossible to fit a 4.5"x9" CC on it.

Maybe the design of the CC's could be adapted so that they would fit on the table?

Rik

[blackshoe]

Let's see: bidding box, coffee mug, snack plate, score sheet, system card. Where does all this stuff go? You've got about nine square inches in your right corner for it all.

Nine square inches, less about 4 square inches for the coffee, less about nine square inches for the snack plate, less about six square inches for the bidding box. You should be able to put (some people will say "hide") your system card and score sheet under all that, but even so, 9-4-9-6 is -10 square inches. "Simple," you say, "don't bring coffee or a snack plate to the table," — good luck with that — "or pull up a spare chair and put your coffee and snack plate there". Unfortunately, there's only so many spare chairs — you're not likely to get one.

AFAICS, the biggest problem with ACBL system cards is that they are so poorly designed that nobody wants to look at them, so it doesn't matter where you put it — but it's still got to be on the table, and preferably not under your bidding box, or some SB will complain to the director. And of course, you can't hand it to the SB and let him worry about where to put it, because he won't take it.

[Trinidad]

OK. Let's do the math:
o Bridge table: 34.88"x34.88" = 1217 sq in
o Bridge board: 4"x10.25" = 41 sq in
o 4 bidding boxes: 4x 5.25"x3.5" = 74 sq in
o 4 convention cards completely open: 4x 9"x9.5"=342 sq in
o 4 coffee mugs: estimated 4 x 15 sq in= 60 sq in
o 2 snack plates, lunch size: 2 x pi/4x6.75x6.75= 72 sq in

Left over for playing cards, cell phones, elbows, etc.: 1217-41-74-342-60-72=1217-589=628 sq in.

Yep, it's going to be tight.

I hired a mathematician and an engineer and after careful analysis they came up with a revolutionary design. They suggest that each player will have the CC right in front of him. The snack plates will be on opposite corners of the table. The remaining corners will have two bidding boxes each. The coffee mugs will fit best next to the snack plates. (Seen from the top, this gives the typical "Mickey Mouse look".) The board will be placed in the middle of the table. Bidding cards or playing cards that have been played can be placed beyond the CC. There will still be room for individual score cards, pencils, cell phones, purse holders and a Bridgemate. Detailed technical drawings can be purchased through me for the small fee of $975.

I realize that it will be quite hard to implement this innovative design, but with the proper backing of the club management it should be possible to get the clientele to accept these changes.

Rik

[blackshoe]

Heh. I think you're dreaming about that last part.

[jillybean]

But how is all this going to stop Mickey and Minnie from using Mickey and Goofeys card, or just not bothering to fill it out?

[blackshoe]

The only thing that will stop that is consistent enforcement of the regulation by directors. Frankly, I don't know how to make that happen. I should think one would start with the tournament department at ACBL HQ. Or perhaps with your District Director.

Also required will be calling the director every time the problem comes up. People are reluctant to do that, because, I think, they believe it makes them "look bad" in some way. It seems the choice is to take a chance on being seen as a "secretary bird" or to live with the problem.

[Vampyr]

blackshoe, on 2012-December-08, 11:15, said:

it doesn't matter where you put it — but it's still got to be on the table, and preferably not under your bidding box, or some SB will complain to the director.

I often put my CC under the bidding box, to minimise the clutter you mention. It is simple for the opponent to take it from there; why do you feel this is a problem?

[Trinidad]

jillybean, on 2012-December-08, 16:09, said:

But how is all this going to stop Mickey and Minnie from using Mickey and Goofeys card, or just not bothering to fill it out?

Maybe the walls of the clubs should have signs that read "Have a CC. It's the Law!". This could be combined with signs "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." and playing of "I fought the law and the law won." in the background ("I shot the Sheriff" should be avoided at all cost).

But, getting more serious, how hard can it really be to have two identical correct CC's available for the opponents? (And I know that the design of the ACBL CC is "suboptimal".) Outside the bridge course that I took, I have never played without a CC in my life, not even when I was an absolute beginner (and I actually began playing in the USA).

Rik

[blackshoe]

Vampyr, on 2012-December-08, 16:52, said:

I often put my CC under the bidding box, to minimise the clutter you mention. It is simple for the opponent to take it from there; why do you feel this is a problem?

It's not - but that's primarily because no one ever looks at it.

My RHO, if he puts a CC on the table at all, puts in on his right. My LHO doesn't seem to put it on the table very often, but it will be under the bidding box if he does. Fine with me, although I did once have a player, when I picked up his bidding box to get at his card, ask me what the hell I thought I was doing.

[ArtK78]

Trinidad, on 2012-December-08, 17:21, said:

Maybe the walls of the clubs should have signs that read "Have a CC. It's the Law!". This could be combined with signs "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." and playing of "I fought the law and the law won." in the background ("I shot the Sheriff" should be avoided at all cost).

But, getting more serious, how hard can it really be to have two identical correct CC's available for the opponents? (And I know that the design of the ACBL CC is "suboptimal".) Outside the bridge course that I took, I have never played without a CC in my life, not even when I was an absolute beginner (and I actually began playing in the USA).

Rik

My regular partner doesn't keep a private score, so he doesn't have a cc unless I give him one.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Bbradley62]

ArtK78, on 2012-December-09, 11:22, said:

Different strokes for different folks.

No, same rules for everyone. You must have a convention card properly filled out, for the benefit of your opponents, not for the convenience of being the other side of your scorecard. If you cannot follow this simple rule, you should stay home and play house bridge.

[blackshoe]

ArtK78, on 2012-December-09, 11:22, said:

My regular partner doesn't keep a private score, so he doesn't have a cc unless I give him one.

Different strokes for different folks.

Bbradley62, on 2012-December-09, 11:32, said:

No, same rules for everyone. You must have a convention card properly filled out, for the benefit of your opponents, not for the convenience of being the other side of your scorecard. If you cannot follow this simple rule, you should stay home and play house bridge.

Bbradley is right, same rules for everyone. We have a player here who doesn't keep a private score, and almost never has a CC (unless he's playing with his wife, and she gives him one). He's in the wrong, as is Art's regular partner.

[barmar]

blackshoe, on 2012-December-08, 22:01, said:

It's not - but that's primarily because no one ever looks at it.

My RHO, if he puts a CC on the table at all, puts in on his right. My LHO doesn't seem to put it on the table very often, but it will be under the bidding box if he does. Fine with me, although I did once have a player, when I picked up his bidding box to get at his card, ask me what the hell I thought I was doing.

I suspect he would have said the same thing even if the CC hadn't been under the bidding box (e.g. at an NABC, where they have those contraptions that hang the bidding box off the corner of the table), and he was just objecting to you grabbing his CC.

[Trinidad]

ArtK78, on 2012-December-09, 11:22, said:

My regular partner doesn't keep a private score, so he doesn't have a cc unless I give him one.

Different strokes for different folks.

That logic is of the same order as "I don't keep track of my gas mileage by writing down the odometer reading each time I fill up, so I don't need a driver's license."

Rik

[mjj29]

I put my convention card in front of my opponents each round, and then put their convention card under my bidding box so that I can review it as necessary. I know I'm a crazy European, so I must be doing it wrong, rather than following the Proper American Way. It seems to work quite well though, and isn't difficult for anyone.

[ArtK78]

Trinidad, on 2012-December-10, 06:49, said:

That logic is of the same order as "I don't keep track of my gas mileage by writing down the odometer reading each time I fill up, so I don't need a driver's license."

Rik

Sorry. When I read this, my reaction was "Huh?"