[jillybean]

Playing 2/1, forcing 1nt

1H 1N 2H 2N

Has your partnership discussed this sequence?

[aguahombre]

11-12, inviting game in notrump.

[the hog]

Playing fnt it shows 10-11 bal, invit. Actually I do not play this, and play the bid as forcing, asking for a singleton, but that is another story. I see little point in playing in 2NT if partner has a 6+ suit.

[jillybean]

So here's the hand

---

MP, IMP, V, NV?

[wyman]

raise hearts for sure

edit: and as above posters have said, 2N is a NT invite.

[jillybean]

 wyman, on 2013-March-13, 07:03, said:

raise hearts for sure

edit: and as above posters have said, 2N is a NT invite.

Raising hearts is a 3 card limit raise for me, same hand as 1H 1N 2x 3H

[wyman]

 jillybean, on 2013-March-13, 07:36, said:

Raising hearts is a 3 card limit raise for me, same hand as 1H 1N 2x 3H

If partner has an extra heart and you have a 3-card limit raise, just bid game imo.

[Codo]

 jillybean, on 2013-March-13, 07:36, said:

Raising hearts is a 3 card limit raise for me, same hand as 1H 1N 2x 3H

if you think that a 9. trump makes such a huge difference, bid game. If not, treat the 6-2 and 6-3 fits equal.

[Zelandakh]

If 2♥ promises 6, what does Opener rebid with a 4522 hand when not playing Flannery?

[jillybean]

 wyman, on 2013-March-13, 07:40, said:

If partner has an extra heart and you have a 3-card limit raise, just bid game imo.

This is the problem, I dont have a 3 card limit raise.

[wyman]

2♣; it's clearly imperfect, but it's what we've got.

edit to avoid anyone else having the misunderstanding that came following this post: This is in response to Zel's question about 4522.

[jillybean]

 Zelandakh, on 2013-March-13, 08:12, said:

If 2♥ promises 6, what does Opener rebid with a 4522 hand when not playing Flannery?

6 or a very good 5.
2♣, partner knows this can be bid with as few as 2.

[wyman]

 jillybean, on 2013-March-13, 08:15, said:

This is the problem, I dont have a 3 card limit raise.

I am confused.

What I'm saying is that if you hold a 3-card limit raise, bid 4H over 2H.

3H over 2H shows the hand you posted.

[jillybean]

deleted

[wyman]

 jillybean, on 2013-March-13, 08:17, said:

6 or a very good 5.

...in most systems. Pretty sure that the "or a vg 5" part is nonstandard. Certainly in every partnership I've played, 2H over a forcing NT unambiguously shows 6+.

[wyman]

 jillybean, on 2013-March-13, 08:18, said:

Insufficient but a good bid

2C was clearly @ Zel and re: 4522 in the auction 1H-1N

[jillybean]

 wyman, on 2013-March-13, 08:18, said:

I am confused.

What I'm saying is that if you hold a 3-card limit raise, bid 4H over 2H.

3H over 2H shows the hand you posted.

I was the one who was confused.

I'm afraid that bidding game over 2H would get us to too many hopeless games.

[billw55]

 jillybean, on 2013-March-13, 08:24, said:

I was the one who was confused.

I'm afraid that bidding game over 2H would get us to too many hopeless games.

Agree. Maybe I am misunderstanding wyman but .. if we bid game with a 3 card limit raise after opener's minimum rebid, then aren't we basically abandoning invitations and treating them all as gameforces?

[wyman]

 jillybean, on 2013-March-13, 08:24, said:

I was the one who was confused.

I'm afraid that bidding game over 2H would get us to too many hopeless games.

Nah, if you routinely open 10 counts with 6 card suits at the 1-level, don't treat a marginal 9-count or 10-count as a limit raise, especially at MPs. In my experience, you don't get to a no-play game very often at all opposite an 11-16 6-bagger when you're holding a 3 card LR.

[wyman]

 billw55, on 2013-March-13, 08:32, said:

Agree. Maybe I am misunderstanding wyman but .. if we bid game with a 3 card limit raise after opener's minimum rebid, then aren't we basically abandoning invitations and treating them all as gameforces?

No because 2H shows extra length.