[aguahombre]

We open 1M in a 5cM system and partner makes a constructive raise.

Our definition is a raise which would be accepting game tries but is not a game try in itself.

We only have one such raise (one-under transfer after a double), but some of you have more of them. The question is: Should Opener just either bid game or not bid game, abandoning science and leakage?

[ArtK78]

There are too many hands in which the degree of fit in more than one suit is crucial. So I would use whatever methods are available to you (long suit tries, short suit tries, etc.) in the context of your raise structure.

Conversely, the number of hands on which your scientific exploration of the best contract will aid the defense in a meaningful way are small.

Having said that (and I apologize for the partial hijack), I ran into this hand in a Sectional Swiss Teams this past Sunday. My opponents are among the best players in the event.

I held:

T9876
T9x
Jxx
Kx

And my opponents perpetrated the following uncontested auction (LHO is the dealer at no one vul):

1NT* - 2♦**
2♠*** - 6♥

* 10-13
** Game Forcing Stayman
*** Shows 4+hearts, denies 4 spades

The opps were off the AK of clubs, and I defy you to lead a club on this auction.

[Phil]

I think you've answered your own question, but raising several others in the process,

1. "Should a CR always be a hand that accepts a game try?". A: No.
2. "Should opener be making more aggressive game tries opposite a CR?". A: Probably.

[CSGibson]

My own philosophy on game tries in close situations:

Bid game when you think you will make game & partner won't be able to evaluate accurately opposite your game try structure.

Use your game try structure when you think partner will be able to evaluate accurately and help in the decision.

[mycroft]

I think a CR is a hand that expects to accept certain game tries, a "normal" single raise expects to have a competitive auction.

However, I can make a game try opposite a 6-bad 9 raise, with a good 18; I can make a game try opposite a good 8-bad 10 raise, with a good 16. Same deal, just different hands.

[Zelandakh]

I think you should amend your definition to a hand that would accept a power try. That does not necessarily mean that it would also accept a short suit or help suit try in any given suit. This also means that your game tries can potentially ask a more targeted question. Better than this though, you should use your game tries in this situation as two-way, sometimes asking for partner's advice but sometimes trying to make the life difficult for the opponents. That also helps to minimise the effects of information leakage, since they cannot rely on it.

[mycroft]

As always with "two-way game tries" of this sort, remember that partner's tank will pooch you unless you have a *clear* "it wasn't a try" hand. As it *should*.

[PhilKing]

mycroft, on 2013-April-18, 09:30, said:

As always with "two-way game tries" of this sort, remember that partner's tank will pooch you unless you have a *clear* "it wasn't a try" hand. As it *should*.

It's a non-issue. Say you are playing short-suit game tries and you have your bid half the time and an alternative random hand hanf the time, it is axiomatic that the random hands are systemically bidding game after a sign-off.

[mycroft]

as long as the random hand isn't short in that suit, no.

And as long as you disclose it, if it's more than once...