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What bid did you dump from your agreements... ...once you realised it was ineffective?

#61 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-July-01, 02:05

 Free, on 2013-June-30, 13:51, said:

I don't see a reason why to play natural either (instead of Smolen).

Rik gave a reason in the last paragraph of his post. After a natural 3, Opener can bid 3NT with no fit and make a cue bid with a nice hand for hearts; the same for a natural 3. After a Smolen 3, Opener can bid 3NT without a fit but now has only 2 cue bids below 4 with a good hand for hearts. FWiiW I do have a form of Smolen in my NT structure but I can easily understand any argument against it based on the above.
(-: Zel :-)
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#62 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2013-July-01, 11:15

 Zelandakh, on 2013-July-01, 02:05, said:

Rik gave a reason in the last paragraph of his post. After a natural 3, Opener can bid 3NT with no fit and make a cue bid with a nice hand for hearts; the same for a natural 3. After a Smolen 3, Opener can bid 3NT without a fit but now has only 2 cue bids below 4 with a good hand for hearts. FWiiW I do have a form of Smolen in my NT structure but I can easily understand any argument against it based on the above.

Sure, but why show your hand at 3-level when you can do it at 2-level? Just play 1NT-2-2-2 as forcing for 1 round (at least invitational) and you don't need 1NT-2-2-3 to be natural.
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#63 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2013-July-01, 11:27

 Free, on 2013-July-01, 11:15, said:

Sure, but why show your hand at 3-level when you can do it at 2-level? Just play 1NT-2-2-2 as forcing for 1 round (at least invitational) and you don't need 1NT-2-2-3 to be natural.


Which is fine if you don't play Walsh relays.
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#64 User is offline   GreenMan 

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Posted 2013-July-01, 12:20

 Free, on 2013-July-01, 11:15, said:

Sure, but why show your hand at 3-level when you can do it at 2-level? Just play 1NT-2-2-2 as forcing for 1 round (at least invitational) and you don't need 1NT-2-2-3 to be natural.


Most people play that sequence as 5-5. If it could be 5-5 or 4-5, opener with e.g. 3244 has a tough guess.

Yeah there are plenty of other solutions if you like devoting larger chunks of memory to the problem, but most people considering Smolen aren't in that category.
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#65 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2013-July-02, 01:41

 Free, on 2013-July-01, 11:15, said:

Sure, but why show your hand at 3-level when you can do it at 2-level? Just play 1NT-2-2-2 as forcing for 1 round (at least invitational) and you don't need 1NT-2-2-3 to be natural.

Many use this sequence for something else. For me it is a multi-way bid showing either a 5 card invite (natural 2NT or 4NT rebid) or clubs or a strong one-suiter. Since your method involves forcing to the 3 level anyway, the loss from showing the hand at the 3 level is minimal and, in the meantime, you are usually using the bidding space more efficiently.
(-: Zel :-)
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