[Hanoi5]

---

Yes, if East passes 5 has more possibilities than 6. But is this sequence ok? Is there a way to stop at 4?

[jillybean]

1C 1D
1H 4H

1C 1H
2H 4H

[akwoo]

I think 4♥ is enough over 4♦; your hand is only slightly better than minimum for the 3♥ bid. West should be able to make another move for slam if his or her hand warrants it.

[mike777]

akwoo, on 2013-July-27, 19:40, said:

I think 4♥ is enough over 4♦; your hand is only slightly better than minimum for the 3♥ bid. West should be able to make another move for slam if his or her hand warrants it.

agree with this but close.

[inquiry]

Iwould start with a Walsh diamond not 1♥.

Over 1♦ as opener, I only rebid a 4 card major with anunbalanced hand. This one counts as unbalanced.

Over 1♥, I follow the advice of Fred to use a jump to2♠ to show 12+ and four spades (with less, don't bid 1♦) and use 1♠ aseither a weak signoff in clubs or notrump, or any game force hand without fourspades.

Opener has an easy 1NT rebid over 1♠, and now 2♥ byresponder shows 4♥ and is game force.

Up to here, nothing too unusual. Over this 2♥ bid, Iuse 2♠ by opener as a waiting bid to get extra info from responder, oropener can show a short suit (2NT would be short spades), or he can show aminimum for auction to date (rebid 3♥) or better than minimum (rebid 3♣).Here he shows a short diamond. A short diamond is not good news opposite AKQx,so responder jumps to 4♥.

---

I know pet method are not favored here. But the bidding up to 2♥ should be normal enough for many on the forums. If you don't play the short suit showing bid, you could go just by cue-bids.. ie.

1C-1d-1h-1s-1NT-2H-2S-2NT-3C-3D-4C-4D-4H-Pass (where 2NT was waiting to ensure a club cue-bid) and 4H was out of gas... only reason can be poor trumps, so responder knows to end the auction as he has poor trumps too.

[gnasher]

I don't understand why East bid 4NT. Doesn't he have a minimum with bad trumps?

[Cyberyeti]

Was serious/frivolous 3N being played ? and if so which one got sidestepped ? If it wasn't played, if 3N showed only 4 hearts it should have been used (we would use it as a diamond cue to save some space so 4♦ would show AK or void). Would have responded 1♦ initially. Cues 1st/2nd ? If so E is playing partner for a pretty good hand, something like ♥AKxxx/♦AKxx barring possibilities involving ♣J, if partner has only 4 hearts, hence 5+ black cards, he needs a really good hand as he doesn't have K♠.

Would also have bid 2♥ not 3 over 1♥, but that's close, so I feel subminimum for 3♥ and don't even think about going slamming unless 4♦ is the serious slam try after sidestepping 3N frivolous (in which case it was an overbid).

[rogerclee]

East just has to show short diamonds below game somehow. Either 3S asks over 3H (steps: 3N =bal, 4C/4D/4H = short C/D/S) or he bids 3D in the first place to show the hand.

Also 4N is obviously absurd, you have a terrible hand with terrible trumps, no need to cooperate, partner will bid again if it's right.

[helene_t]

3♥ has a narrow range so I don't think it is of much use to distinguish between a min and a max 3♥ bid.

Maybe if W relays with 3♠ asking for shortness, you will stop in 4♥?

[Fluffy]

gnasher, on 2013-July-28, 01:42, said:

I don't understand why East bid 4NT. Doesn't he have a minimum with bad trumps?

I also hate moving over 4♥ with bad trumps but I think 4♦ didn't leave a chance, this is, assuming 3♠ is available as cuebid:

I think 3♥ is a narrow range and thus doesn't have minimums, so having control of both black suits where partner denied control forces you to move on when you control both black suits. I know this logic doesn't have to stand for everyone, and others might be happier with more judgement involved.



Mini splinter is the best way to solve this hand.

For example change the hand to what a 3♥ should have like ♠x ♥KQxx ♦xxx ♣AKJxx and voila!, slam is reached with no effort after 1♣-1♥-3♥-4♦ (althou it is not foolproof) but 3♥ bidder has to move himself over 4♦ (Admittedly easier with ♥KQ), but you can switch red kings or even KQ and auction is the same.

[PhilKing]

helene_t, on 2013-July-28, 04:41, said:

3♥ has a narrow range so I don't think it is of much use to distinguish between a min and a max 3♥ bid.

Maybe if W relays with 3♠ asking for shortness, you will stop in 4♥?

Serious/frivolous is very good here when playing with an maniac. They love making slam tries, but now you can just sign off with 100% of hands when they bid step 1 and everyone is happy.

In reality, step 1 asking for shortage is best if we do not play minisplinters.

[kgr]

In my methods:
1♣-1♦! (1♣=2+C; 1♦=T-Walsh=♥)
3♦!-3NT! (3♦=splinter:12-14 or 18-19; 3NT=slam interest opposite 18-19)
4♥-AP

[rogerclee]

PhilKing, on 2013-July-28, 05:38, said:

Serious/frivolous is very good here when playing with an maniac.

I think it's a great convention anyway. However, I agree that frivolous/serious is essential for people who are not good slam bidders, which IMO is roughly (without exaggeration) more than 99% of the bridge playing population and includes most experts and national/world champions.

[MrAce]

Phil Clayton where are you !!? Look at this hand and remember the "Timo convention" (Bragging time )

This is the 5th hand that it comes, on forums and some hands we played with Phil in BBO combined.

1♣--1♦
1M--2M (being forcing and slamish since responder would have started with 1♥ otherwise due to walsh)

In BBF i was told that 2♥ in the auction i gave is designated to a specific hand, which is "invitation with 3 card ♥ support and no stopper in unbid suit! (or something like that) I argued back then and would still argue that it will not come, or when it does it is so rare that players will find another bid because t hey will forget this, and even if they do not forget it does not make a big difference. I mean if you spare a bid for a rare situation you would expect to gain a huge advantage than other people when it comes. But at MP i may be convinced to use it as Justin suggested

But slam hands, whether for bidding them or for staying out of bad ones makes a lot of difference. Especially at IMPs imo. After 2M you can create your custom continuation. Relays or natural or w/e you choose to, having saved a lot of space already compared to your opponents.

I agree with Jillybean that W should start with 1♦ btw.

[mfa1010]

A key to getting more of these problems right is to be able to show shortages on either hand to let partner evaluate the fit.
Just focusing on general strength and cuebids is bound to result in getting too high/too low when a shortage fits particularly bad/good.

1♣-1♥-3♦ mini-splinter would be good here. Other options are to allow responder to ask for and show splinters after 3♥.

The fact that responder should bid 1♦ in some other bidding styles is irrelevant.

[gszes]

mfa1010, on 2013-July-29, 07:18, said:

A key to getting more of these problems right is to be able to show shortages on either hand to let partner evaluate the fit.
Just focusing on general strength and cuebids is bound to result in getting too high/too low when a shortage fits particularly bad/good.

1♣-1♥-3♦ mini-splinter would be good here. Other options are to allow responder to ask for and show splinters after 3♥.

The fact that responder should bid 1♦ in some other bidding styles is irrelevant.

seems like a perfect idea to me (I use it a lot) where opener wants to raise to 3h (14 hcp) but by using
3d they can show why they are inviting to 3h this allows responder much greater latitude when
it comes to accepting the invite because they know to devalue dia honers (even the A is not
worth its full value anymore). After this beginning and all that wasted power opposite shortness
maybe a 4d cue bid asking p for extra values will suffice and pass when they sign off. There are
many other approaches after 3d but most will get the partnership to at least the 5 level.

[ArtK78]

mfa1010, on 2013-July-29, 07:18, said:

A key to getting more of these problems right is to be able to show shortages on either hand to let partner evaluate the fit.
Just focusing on general strength and cuebids is bound to result in getting too high/too low when a shortage fits particularly bad/good.

1♣-1♥-3♦ mini-splinter would be good here. Other options are to allow responder to ask for and show splinters after 3♥.

The fact that responder should bid 1♦ in some other bidding styles is irrelevant.

This is what I play in my regular partnership. 1♣ - 1♥ - 3♦: Either a mini-splinter (heart raise, short diamonds, invitational to game) or a maxi splinter (heart raise, short diamonds, better than a game forcing splinter). Responder treats the 3♦ bid as a mini-spinter and takes the appropriate action - here, 3NT or 4♥. Responder, with the mini-splinter, abides by responder's decision. With the maxi-splinter, he bids again.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Hanoi5, on 2013-July-27, 19:17, said:

---

Yes, if East passes, 5 has more possibilities than 6. But is this sequence ok? Is there a way to stop at 4?

If East is willing to go to the 3-level on his rebid, he might as well make a more descriptive bid of a 3D! reverse-splinter ( some refer to it as a mini-splinter ) for ♥ .
If West considers his ♦ holding as negative for slam, he might just sign-off in 4H .

[Hanoi5]

When Hearts are responder's suit the mini-splinter can only be done in Diamonds (or clubs if the opening bid was 1♦). When the suit is Spades both splinters can be shown, am I right?

[Stephen Tu]

Hanoi5, on 2013-July-30, 15:46, said:

When Hearts are responder's suit the mini-splinter can only be done in Diamonds (or clubs if the opening bid was 1♦).

In traditional methods, you only have the mini-spl in diamonds after 1c-1h, yes. If 1d-1h, most people need 3c as a natural forcing jump shift, so you have to bid 4c to spl which forces to game so it can't really be a "mini".

If you are willing to shuffle things around, and do things like utilize an semi-artificial jump shift to 2s, you can show mini-spl in other suit also, along with other hand types.