[barsikb]

---

I am inclined to say 1♦ because of rebid problem in case of 2♣-2♦

Is this correct?

[louisg]

 barsikb, on 2013-July-28, 09:29, said:

---

I am inclined to say 1♦ because of rebid problem in case of 2♣-2♦

Is this correct?

Yes. Some people might consider opening 2NT as well, but I think 1D is best. For one thing, it gives you the best chance of finding a fit in any of your 3 suits. The bidding might very well go something like 1D-1H-2S-2NT-3C, etc.

[barsikb]

Partner had following

---

What is his response to 1♦if

a) East passed
b) East came in with 2♥
?

[louisg]

 barsikb, on 2013-July-28, 09:46, said:

Partner had following

---

What is his response to 1♦if

a) East passed
b) East came in with 2♥
?

a) 1S. Assuming a standard 5-card major system, this is routine.

b) Pass. South doesn't have the values needed for either a negative double or a diamond raise at this level.

[aguahombre]

I look for reasons not to open 2C. This one has so many, I don't know where to start. Not even good enough to fake it with a 2NT opening, IMO. It is nice enough to consider being in game if Pard has a response, but that's it.

[aguahombre]

 louisg, on 2013-July-28, 09:55, said:

a) 1S. Assuming a standard 5-card major system, this is routine.

b) Pass. South doesn't have the values needed for either a negative double or a diamond raise at this level.

Yep. And have no fear. on b), South will hear North reopen with a Double..then will bid 2 lowly spades. North should raise to 3 and South will accept.

[RSClyde]

I had a 4441 20 count one day that I opened 1♦. Partner thought for a while and passed. Then he laid down his hand claiming to have "masterminded the auction". It turned out that he had 2 kings and we had an 8 card fit... in clubs! The misfit was nasty enough that 1♦ making 2 in a 4-1 fit was a cold top.

[Fluffy]

IMO your best opening is 2♣ or 2♦ to show 22-23 balanced, however 1♦ might work much better on some scenarios and I have nothing against it.

[BillPatch]

I agree with Fluffy. This is a strong 23.85 knr hand, stronger than the average 23 hcp average balanced hand. Unless partner has a ♥ one-suiter, 2NT is too weak, one of suit also will miss many games and slams. (knr -- Kaplan & Rubens points).

[chasetb]

This hand is so suit-oriented, I have no problems opening it 1♦. Yes, it has a great KnR, but ONLY in a suit. In NT, it is garbage unless partner has something. Agua hit it on the head imo.

[mikeh]

I think 1♦ is clear. 4441 hands generally play worse than the hcp would suggest, and we have a significant rebid problem after opening 2♣

It's not that we are assured of having an easy auction after 1♦, but on balance we can probably cope better, with the extra bidding space. If it goes all pass, we aren't likely to have missed anything.

[barsikb]

Thank you for the answers! So 1♦. What if it was a bit stronger? 23, 24, 25?

[aguahombre]

 barsikb, on 2013-August-10, 08:24, said:

Thank you for the answers! So 1♦. What if it was a bit stronger? 23, 24, 25?

This is ugly, unless you have a toy to use. For this forum, I will just say some people do have one. It might be a prepared (Kokish?) set of continuations after a 2C opening, or it might be one of the possible hand strengths/types for an artificial 2D opening.

[barsikb]

Yes, need more toys, definitely

[mr1303]

I prefer to open 1C than 1D. The reason being is I want partner to be able to bid something at the 1 level on any excuse. With a 4-5 count and clubs he may pass 1D.

[ahydra]

I think I could live with either 1D, 2NT or a gadget we have for this which is 2C followed by 2S to show a strong three-suiter. We would bid 2C-(2H)-X; 2S (three-suited)-2NT (ask shortage); 3H (short hearts)-4S.

ahydra

[cargobeep]

2♣ seems best. 1♦ could easily be passed out, and 4♠ could easily make. Even 3NT could work if partner's looking for hearts.

Double dummy says 4♠ can be made on as little as an A♣ and 4 low spades, even if trumps are 4-1 and we can't finesse. 3NT would be down 2 opposite a Yarborough, but with a few HCP, we got points. A bidder's game.

[1eyedjack]

I am surprised by Fluffy/Billpatch evaluations. I was weaned on books which consistently recommended downgrading Aceltons (and Kingletons,, Queenletons etc for that matter) for reasons that were lucidly explained and made sense to me at the time and I think born out by my subsequent experience. So to suggest that this hand is actually worth more than its HCP is anathema to me.

[Cyberyeti]

 1eyedjack, on 2013-August-16, 12:36, said:

I am surprised by Fluffy/Billpatch evaluations. I was weaned on books which consistently recommended downgrading Aceltons (and Kingletons,, Queenletons etc for that matter) for reasons that were lucidly explained and made sense to me at the time and I think born out by my subsequent experience. So to suggest that this hand is actually worth more than its HCP is anathema to me.

It's worth more than its HCP as soon as you find a fit. Worth less in NT.

xxxxx, xxx, xx, xxx is a 2-2 break or the ♣K standing up off 4♠ for example.

[rmnka447]

I'm in the crowd opening 1 ♦.

If you open 2 ♣ and it is followed by 2 ♦ (waiting ?), what do you bid next? Partner will have problems figuring out that you hold only 4 cards in any suit you bid. If you try to bid all 3 suits, the auction can get pretty high.

After 1 ♦ -(Pass) - ?, the responding hand should bid 1 ♠.

After 1 ♦ (2 ♥) - ?, as mentioned earlier Pass is correct because you don't have the values for a negative double at that level.