[barmar]

kenberg, on 2013-October-01, 13:02, said:

I am hearing that the Democrats shut down the government!

I suppose they can explain this kind of like a parent explaining that a punishment is the child's own fault: "I don't want to do it, but your behavior forced me to."

And unfortunately, their supporters probably believe this line of BS.

[barmar]

Just got an amusing piece of spam, claiming to sell new cars for half price until a budget deal is reached. Of course it's a lie, it's just a link to auto-car-finder.com, a generic car shopping web site.

[billw55]

Winstonm, on 2013-October-02, 08:00, said:

The Tea Party, a small faction within the Republican party, caused this mess by refusing to accept the results of democracy. In order, the Affordable Care Act was passed by both the House and Senate, two chances to stop the implementation. Both times the bill passed. It was then signed into law by the President. After which, the law was unsuccessfully challenged in the U.S. Supreme Court, which found it legal. Following that loss, the Republicans had one more chance to prevent implementation by winning the national elections - and their ideology was once again defeated except in areas where gerrymandering ensured victory (Democrats received more total votes than Republicans for House seats but lost the majority, regardless.)

Now, after having had multiple legal and ethical chances to alter the will of the people, this small minority has decided that it knows what is best for everyone else and will hold the US hostage to its demands to defund a law it does not like.

When these people were 3-years-old, their parents should have taught them that "you can't always get what you want, but if you try you just might find, you get what you need."

Totally agree, and not only that, the TPRs (tea party republicans) have made multiple attempts to repeal the law by the proper means (legislation in Congress), all of which have failed. Basically they have lost; the law has been passed and confirmed by all our constitutional government processes. So now, they throw a big baby tantrum to try to get their way, obstructing everything, almost none of which is related to the issue they are pouting over.

I say, kudos to President Obama for refusing to negotiate with what has become, essentially, legislative terrorism.

[Winstonm]

PassedOut, on 2013-October-02, 08:45, said:

My representative from the Michigan first district, Dan Benishek, is part of the faction that has closed down the US government. His win last year in our newly gerrymandered district was razor-thin (the closeness of our race was a sub-plot in the Newsroom TV show this year), so we're trying to get through to him the impact of what he is doing.

Our former representative, Bart Stupak, would always respond right away to suggestions and criticisms, but so far sending emails to Benishek is like dropping them into a black hole.

I finally broke down yesterday and wrote my Congressman and a Senator, but seeing as I am living in Oklahoma my actions were most likely taken as seriously as a football game against an Ivy League team.

[ArtK78]

Winstonm, on 2013-October-02, 12:44, said:

I finally broke down yesterday and wrote my Congressman and a Senator, but seeing as I am living in Oklahoma my actions were most likely taken as seriously as a football game against an Ivy League team.

Speaking as a graduate of Princeton, I take offense. I am sure that we take our football games more seriously than your elected representatives will take your letter.

[Winstonm]

ArtK78, on 2013-October-02, 13:55, said:

Speaking as a graduate of Princeton, I take offense. I am sure that we take our football games more seriously than your elected representatives will take your letter.

Point conceded.

[Winstonm]

billw55, on 2013-October-02, 12:13, said:

Totally agree, and not only that, the TPRs (tea party republicans) have made multiple attempts to repeal the law by the proper means (legislation in Congress), all of which have failed. Basically they have lost; the law has been passed and confirmed by all our constitutional government processes. So now, they throw a big baby tantrum to try to get their way, obstructing everything, almost none of which is related to the issue they are pouting over.

I say, kudos to President Obama for refusing to negotiate with what has become, essentially, legislative terrorism.

I recently saw on CNN a quote from, I believe, New Yorker, that stated that the 80 members of the House who made up the tea party minority represented 18% of the U.S. population. Seems like gerrymandering is a loaded weapon passed out to children with which to play.

[ArtK78]

Breaking news from my local online news source: Steve Lonegan, who is running against Corey Booker for U.S. Senator from New Jersey in a special election three weeks from today, in a speech at a local hotel, praised Republican lawmakers for causing the shutdown of the US in an effort to get rid of Obamacare.

Not that I was voting for him anyway, but is there anyway I can vote against him more than once?

[blackshoe]

ArtK78, on 2013-October-02, 14:55, said:

Breaking news from my local online news source: Steve Lonegan, who is running against Corey Booker for U.S. Senator from New Jersey in a special election three weeks from today, in a speech at a local hotel, praised Republican lawmakers for causing the shutdown of the US in an effort to get rid of Obamacare.

Not that I was voing for him anyway, but is there anyway I can vote against him more than once?

Not legally, but I'm sure if you consult with Chicago they'll have some suggestions.

[kenberg]

ArtK78, on 2013-October-02, 14:55, said:

Breaking news from my local online news source: Steve Lonegan, who is running against Corey Booker for U.S. Senator from New Jersey in a special election three weeks from today, in a speech at a local hotel, praised Republican lawmakers for causing the shutdown of the US in an effort to get rid of Obamacare.

Not that I was voting for him anyway, but is there anyway I can vote against him more than once?

Addressing Steve Lonegan, I guess I would say that one of us has lost touch with reality and I don't think it's me. We shall see how this all plays out, maybe this is a winning move for Republicans, but I will be amazed. Not the first time, of course.

[akwoo]

Winstonm, on 2013-October-02, 14:15, said:

I recently saw on CNN a quote from, I believe, New Yorker, that stated that the 80 members of the House who made up the tea party minority represented 18% of the U.S. population. Seems like gerrymandering is a loaded weapon passed out to children with which to play.

80 members of the House is 18.39% of the House. There is no gerrymandering at play in that statistic.

[Trinidad]

I must be missing something here. Can anyone explain to me how 80 Tea party members can convince 137 out of the remaining 152 Republican members (>90%) that it is a good idea to shut down the government?

Can anyone explain to me why this is seen as something that the Tea Party Republicans are doing when more than 90% of the other Republicans are doing the same?

Rik

[mike777]

Trinidad, on 2013-October-03, 01:35, said:

I must be missing something here. Can anyone explain to me how 80 Tea party members can convince 137 out of the remaining 152 Republican members (>90%) that it is a good idea to shut down the government?

Can anyone explain to me why this is seen as something that the Tea Party Republicans are doing when more than 90% of the other Republicans are doing the same?

Rik

my guess and only a guess is the government is not shut down......some one rules..


idiots think the govt is shut down....but it aint.
billions and billions are still spent ...not sent back to taxpayers..you will not get a check in the mail....


guys you will see stories that govt does not spend 60 billion etc...but you get nothing I repeat nothing back.
-----------------


bottom line we ...you think if the govt is shut down we get a check in the mail

I back.....

I understand ....where is my money.......I want my money

All the rest is bullshit

[ArtK78]

mike777, on 2013-October-03, 01:58, said:

my guess and only a guess is the government is not shut down......some one rules..


idiots think the govt is shut down....but it aint.

Ha.

Tell that to my friends who work for the government who are sitting at home today because they were furloughed.

There was a comedy album in the 70's at a time when the US economy was particularly bad (worse than now). One skit on the record (remember records?) was "The United States is having a Going Out of Business Sale!" Perhaps we should reconsider that option.

[PassedOut]

ArtK78, on 2013-October-03, 06:15, said:

Ha.

Tell that to my friends who work for the government who are sitting at home today because they were furloughed.

And folks who work for the government are customers of those of us who have businesses. Congress needs to stop being destructive and go back to being merely useless.

[Winstonm]

mike777, on 2013-October-03, 01:58, said:

my guess and only a guess is the government is not shut down......some one rules..


idiots think the govt is shut down....but it aint.
billions and billions are still spent ...not sent back to taxpayers..you will not get a check in the mail....


guys you will see stories that govt does not spend 60 billion etc...but you get nothing I repeat nothing back.
-----------------


bottom line we ...you think if the govt is shut down we get a check in the mail

I back.....

I understand ....where is my money.......I want my money

All the rest is bullshit

The taxmoney collected and government borrowing is poured back into the economy as government spending. That is estimated to be a loss to the economy of $300,000,000 per day because of this impasse. Crippling the economy reduces the amount of money that can be earned by working and selling goods and services, i.e., by profits.

[barmar]

Some congresscritter or pundit referred to Obamacare as "the worst law ever enacted by man". So they're claiming that it's worse than Jim Crow, the Inquisition, and the laws in Nazi Germany that sent 6 million Jews to the gas chamber. Genocide is better than giving everyone affordable health care!

[kenberg]

mike777, on 2013-October-03, 01:58, said:

I back.....
I understand ....where is my money.......I want my money
All the rest is bullshit

Well, that's certainly straightforward enough. I read that 97% of NASA employees are furloughed, I suppose that they also want their money. I, of course, also want my money. But I am not quite up to saying that everything else is bullshit. A functioning government would be good. Stability would be good.


You want your money, everything else is bullshit. The Tea Party wants to kill the ACA, everything else is bullshit. I am hoping we can do better.

[Winstonm]

Mike's post hits at the heart of the enigma for me - how can otherwise intelligent folks hold on so desperately to ideology that flies in the face of facts, data, evidence, and history?

I am growing more strongly aligned with the faction that adheres to the idea that belief systems lacking objective verification or objective evidence are the root of interpersonal human problems. Regardless if the belief system is Reaganomics, Statism, Islam, or Christianity, the end result is to create a schism between A) the followers, and B) the non-followers.

When those small, narrow-minded groups of believers and followers gain power, the end result is predictable: conflict. Eliminate the underlying cause of the conflict, and at least one reason for human conflict is eliminated, though others remain.

[ArtK78]

One day, probably not in the too distant future, Obamacare (although it will not be referred to in that manner) will be viewed in the same way that social security and medicare are viewed today - absolute necessities.

Social Security dates from the Franklin Roosevelt administration, and Medicare dates from the Lyndon Johnson administration. This is not ancient history.