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The Problem with Religious Moderation From Sam Harris

#721 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2014-March-10, 10:36

 helene_t, on 2014-March-10, 10:05, said:

Well there are organisations for people who do not wear clothes when swimming or camping. And for people who do not eat meat.

I (a little naughty) put the vegetarian in on purpose. It was easy for me since where you and I call meat "meat" my Indian friends call it "non-veg". One can make a negative out of a positive, but perhaps more important to remember: One can make a positive out of a negative.

For me the key thing is that on this issue I do not want to be positively identified as an atheist. I want to be negatively identified as "non-religious" or a "non-believer". Why? Because not only am I "not a believer", I am also "not an atheist". Perhaps you could call me an "I don't know and I don't care"-ist, a "God? What's that? And what do we need this for?"-ist or a "Live and let live"-ist. But of course, you would first have to find some Greek or Latin translation to these terms, otherwise it would all be meaningless. ;)

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
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#722 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2014-March-10, 11:43

Be careful with that, Trinidad, what you describe is very close to apatheism :)
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#723 User is offline   Scarabin 

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Posted 2014-March-11, 00:20

 gwnn, on 2014-March-10, 11:43, said:

Be careful with that, Trinidad, what you describe is very close to apatheism :)


or in other words, intelligent moderation.

:D
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#724 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2014-March-11, 02:05

 Scarabin, on 2014-March-11, 00:20, said:



or in other words, intelligent moderation.

:D

I don't mind people calling me intelligent... or moderate for that matter. :)

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
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#725 User is offline   32519 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 06:57

How many of you know what Axioms are, why they are needed, and who it is developing them?
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#726 User is offline   PassedOut 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 06:59

 32519, on 2014-March-21, 06:57, said:

How many of you know what Axioms are, why they are needed, and who it is developing them?

Every educated person.
The growth of wisdom may be gauged exactly by the diminution of ill temper. — Friedrich Nietzsche
The infliction of cruelty with a good conscience is a delight to moralists — that is why they invented hell. — Bertrand Russell
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#727 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 07:07

They are in the Bible, they are needed as otherwise we would be committing genocide without divine mandate and we can't have that, and no one with out limited existence of sinful depravity can develop/modify them. God's divine, eternal Word created them the moment he and Jesus said 'Let there be light!'

what did I win?
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#728 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 07:10

https://www.youtube....h?v=44ilZq3R900
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#729 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 15:40

 gwnn, on 2014-March-21, 07:10, said:



I was watching this with amusement. Becky, in the other room, was half listening: "What are you watching? You don't watch stuff like that."
Ken
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#730 User is offline   32519 

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Posted 2014-March-21, 22:19

gwnn, PassedOut, Vampyr and mikeh

Come an explain to us in layman's term why the Standard Model was abandoned in favour of the BBT.
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Posted 2014-March-21, 23:46

Both the Standard Model and the Big Bang Theory are the most accurate ways known to describe the observations they concern.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#732 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2014-March-22, 00:30

 32519, on 2014-March-21, 06:57, said:

How many of you know what Axioms are, why they are needed, and who it is developing them?


An Australian rock band from the 1960's.
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#733 User is offline   Trinidad 

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Posted 2014-March-22, 01:07

 32519, on 2014-March-21, 06:57, said:

How many of you know what Axioms are, why they are needed, and who it is developing them?

32519

Rik
I want my opponents to leave my table with a smile on their face and without matchpoints on their score card - in that order.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the new discoveries, is not “Eureka!” (I found it!), but “That’s funny…” – Isaac Asimov
The only reason God did not put "Thou shalt mind thine own business" in the Ten Commandments was that He thought that it was too obvious to need stating. - Kenberg
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#734 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2014-March-22, 01:20

 32519, on 2014-March-21, 22:19, said:

gwnn, PassedOut, Vampyr and mikeh

Come an explain to us in layman's term why the Standard Model was abandoned in favour of the BBT.

It was not abandoned. They are not rival theories.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#735 User is offline   32519 

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Posted 2014-March-22, 01:45

I have just found myself a new favourite theory! Check this one out, The Theory of Everything, or ToE.
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#736 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2014-March-22, 06:55

Here is my theory of everything: Any theory that explains everything is wrong.
Ken
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#737 User is offline   Vampyr 

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Posted 2014-March-22, 07:23

 32519, on 2014-March-22, 01:45, said:

I have just found myself a new favourite theory! Check this one out, The Theory of Everything, or ToE.

Ummm... there is no need to check it out, because everyone else has already heard about it.

It would be so exciting watching you discover science, except for the fact that you then inexplicably hate everything you learn about.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones -- Albert Einstein
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#738 User is offline   32519 

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Posted 2014-March-22, 10:01

Seems like our fancy theorists have lined up work for themselves for the next 1,000 years. They have compiled this list to keep themselves in a job, List of unsolved problems in physics.
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#739 User is offline   kenberg 

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Posted 2014-March-22, 10:33

 32519, on 2014-March-22, 10:01, said:

Seems like our fancy theorists have lined up work for themselves for the next 1,000 years. They have compiled this list to keep themselves in a job, List of unsolved problems in physics.


Quote

Given an arbitrary compact gauge group, does a non-trivial quantum Yang–Mills theory with a finite mass gap exist? This problem is also listed as one of the Millennium Prize Problems in mathematics.


I was just asking Becky about this possibility this morning. She was busy fixing toast and eggs, but promised to work it out later today. I'll get back to you on this.

Actually I like the list. Baryon asymmetry is an old one of course. I seem to recall philosophical discussions about this as a teenager. I think we decided that there must be a parallel universe where anti-particles are dominant. Presumably they are not called anti-particles in that universe. My classmates suggested I shut up about this crap if I wanted to make it home.
Ken
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#740 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2014-March-22, 11:00

 32519, on 2014-March-22, 10:01, said:

Seems like our fancy theorists have lined up work for themselves for the next 1,000 years. They have compiled this list to keep themselves in a job, List of unsolved problems in physics.

Are there any unsolved problems with the Bible, too, perchance?

This is a relatively short list:

http://infidels.org/...sistencies.html

The difference being that the physicists never claimed that their papers are the perfect word of the creator of the universe, nor do they claim that it the current state of theory is complete.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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