What to bid
#1
Posted 2014-June-22, 01:24
Partner North opens one no-trump (15/17) All vul
West interposes two spades.
You as south have:
2
AJ65
10
QJ98743
My thoughts were double has to be for penalties, three clubs to play leaving ?
I bid a practical five clubs and got booted as soon as my hand was exposed.
That's not new at BBO but curious as to what might be a better approach.
#2
Posted 2014-June-22, 01:51
#3
Posted 2014-June-22, 01:51
IMPs v MP may make a difference, but you don't say.
I prefer to play takeout doubles here, so the penalty X would not be an option for me. Don't think that I like it even if it were.
Presumably your partner was host. Hope the other two players also left.
[EDIT]
I first read it as AJ52 of Spades and some unspecified red singleton missing from the hand diag, as penalty X was floated as an option. But I now see that it was 1-4-1-7 shape, so penalty X is right out of the window. Takeout X possibly back in the frame, if playing that, but I wouldn't.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#4
Posted 2014-June-22, 02:18
Without it 3♠ is the bid, showing 4 hearts and game values.
With it (the convention is called Lebensohl, well worth looking up) you treat a 2N bid as artificial, and the difference between 1N-(2♠)-3♠ and 1N-(2♠)-2N-3♣-3♠ (the 3♣ bid is forced) is that one shows 4 hearts and a spade stop, and the other shows 4 hearts without one.
#5
Posted 2014-June-22, 03:40
The hand has 1+2+1+2 = 6 losers and the 1NT bid statistically has 4 cover cards. 5♣ should make thus.
As a rule, when the minor suit doesn't have the ace it's best to bid the suit game, not NT.
#6
Posted 2014-June-22, 03:46
[edit - crossed in post]
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#7
Posted 2014-June-23, 08:44
I would bid 3♣ hoping it was forcing, but if partner passed at least we would go plus. If given a second chance, I would bid hearts. There are too many hands on which partner has 4 hearts where 4♥ is cold to not bid again. And 5♣ could certainly make.
In any case, passing over 2♠ is out of the question. And doubling is absurd unless you have clearly agreed that the double is negative.
#8
Posted 2014-June-23, 08:52
Here in England, 3♣ would be alertable if it were forcing so before you make a forcing 3♣ bid you might check the flag country of your partner !
#9
Posted 2014-June-23, 09:10
Having found the hand online, there are also few additions to make. First of all RHO (East) was the dealer. Partner opened 1NT after 3 passes and East (not West ) now bid 2♠ alerted as Cappelletti (spades + a minor). The scoring is IMPs and it is Love All. To Jack's question, one of the other players left (or was booted) and the other stayed for a further 5 hands.
#10
Posted 2014-June-23, 09:35
helene_t, on 2014-June-23, 08:52, said:
For the benefit of EBU members, this will be one of a very small number of changes in the new Blue Book, which will come into effect at the start of August.
London UK
#12
Posted 2014-June-23, 22:40
#13
Posted 2014-June-23, 23:01
#14
Posted 2014-June-24, 17:32
Cyberyeti, on 2014-June-22, 02:18, said:
Without it 3♠ is the bid, showing 4 hearts and game values.
With it (the convention is called Lebensohl, well worth looking up) you treat a 2N bid as artificial, and the difference between 1N-(2♠)-3♠ and 1N-(2♠)-2N-3♣-3♠ (the 3♣ bid is forced) is that one shows 4 hearts and a spade stop, and the other shows 4 hearts without one.
I play Lebensohl, and I like this treatment.
#15
Posted 2014-June-24, 22:37
bluechip10, on 2014-June-24, 17:32, said:
Me too. Just not on this hand.
Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mstr-mnding) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.
"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"
"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
#16
Posted 2014-June-25, 01:52
bluechip10, on 2014-June-24, 17:32, said:
Some other options are transfers (eg 2NT = ♣; 3♣ = ♦; 3♦ = ♥; 3♥ = Stayman; 3♠ = stop ask) or bidding Stayman via a takeout double to leave more options for direct bids (eg add 3♥ as a natural invite to the scheme above). You can also use a hybrid scheme with transfers + a multi-way 2NT, for example by bundling inviational red-suited hands into 2NT.
#17
Posted 2014-June-25, 02:10
aguahombre, on 2014-June-23, 23:01, said:
Not really fair. The vast majority of club players play weak NT and don't play lebensohl; Within these constraints, 3C NF is perfectly sensible, and I think most play it as such.
#18
Posted 2014-June-25, 02:21
1eyedjack, on 2014-June-24, 22:37, said:
I was presuming this was pairs, basically you're taking a gamble, if partner has a hand where they can force you to ruff twice, and he only has 2 clubs, then 5♣ will likely play better (xxx, KQxx, AKJx, Kx for example). The worst case for 5♣ is where partner has say Kxx, KQxx, KQxx, Kx and you're off 3 aces in 5♣ but might make 4♥. Much of the time you will score 420/450 in 4♥ and 400 in 5♣, give partner a fairly typical Axx, K10xx, KJx, Ax and 5♣ is no gimme, 4♥ simply demands hearts 3-2 and clubs not 4-0 and will outscore 5♣ even if you do manage to make it.
I'd be interested to see a sim on this, but I expect 4♥ to score better at matchpoints if partner has 4 hearts.
#19
Posted 2014-June-25, 07:36
MickyB, on 2014-June-25, 02:10, said:
I read a different OP than you did.
#20
Posted 2014-June-25, 07:42
aguahombre, on 2014-June-25, 07:36, said:
No. Micky's comment was about EBU being a scary organization. In that context it is relevant that most EBU club players play weak NT. This is not related to OP's system.
Sorry for the hijack.