[chasetb]

Your hand is ♠Jx ♥KQJxx ♦Ax ♣KJ98. What would you open?

If it matters, use Precision as the system and MP scoring, but EVERYONE'S opinion is important to me. I also ask that if you do choose 1♥, that you still browse the 1NT opening, because I have a few questions under it I would like answered. A couple of the bidding options aren't completed, because I'm working on them and adding them to my future system(s). Thanks to everyone who participates!!!

Partner is a great player and bidder. You are playing 1NT as 15-17, it can include a 5-card Major and be 5M-4m shape, but it doesn't happen too often.

I'll show all 4 hands in 1-3 days, depending on interest garnered. Let's see if we can't get this on top of BBO News!

Let's say you opened 1♥.

Spoiler

Partner bids 1♠. Are you bidding 1NT or 2♣?

Spoiler

Partner will bid 2♦, regardless of your bid (XYZ convention, or 4SF). Now what are you bidding?

Spoiler

Partner will be bidding 3♣ if possible. I'm working on further options.

Or maybe because it's MPs, you open 1NT.

Spoiler

Partner bids 3♥, 4144 or 40(45) shape. Are you bidding 3NT or 4♣?

Question: do you allow the 41(35) shape into your 3♠ splinter, and if you do, how do you untangle it later?

If you bid 3NT,

Spoiler

Partner bids 4♥. Question: What do you take it as, and what should it mean?

If you bid 4♣,

Spoiler

Congratulations, as partner will lead you to the correct contract!

[kenrexford]

If you normally open a 15-17 1NT, then the 5422 range should be 14-16. That said, I would usually open 1H unless either really lousy hearts or a severe cov in the doubletons.
However, if playing in some partnerships, I would be happier opening 2H as 5+ hearts, 4+ clubs, 10-15 HCPs, with the same rare 1NT exception.

[whereagles]

1♥ 1♠
2♣

seems canonical... what am I missing?

[mikeh]

I would always open 1♥, since 5=4 hands suggest suit play, especially when one of the doubletons is weak and the other pure, here Jx Ax respectively.

AQ Kxxxx Kx QJxx, I might be tempted to distort via 1N....I tell a lie...I would distort via 1N

Having opened 1♥, a rebid of 1N over 1♠ is silly to the point of absurdity...such a call denies the range shown by an opening 1N, so it is impossible to make that call, and we have a comfortable 2♣.

Yes, I know that this sequence can create problems with this strength, and there will be many responding hands, after this start, where we wish we had opened 1N. However, that thinking leads to madness, with a constant oscillation back and forth between opening bid choices based on the last time we held this hand-type.

To me, 5=4 hands of this nature are more prone to disaster after 1N than after 1♥. Just try finding 4♥ on a 5-3 heart fit, when partner holds a hand such as xx Axx xxxx AQxx (I know, this is ridiculously cooked, but I'm trying to make a point, not suggest an actual hand...try Ax xxx Qxxx Axxx, and 4♥ is still much better and so on).

The auction is rapid...1N 3N, and the defence is even more rapid....5 rounds of spades and, if you are lucky, you claim.

Sure, 1♥ isn't disaster immune but we have more chance landing on our feet if we bid shape accurately early on than if we distort shape on the altar of high card description.

[mikeh]

If I opened 1N, I would definitely rebid 3N, and think any other choice is silly.

Then over 4♥, it should show a slam-interested (but not slam forcing as of yet) 4=0=(54)

With minimum hcp and KQJxx in his void, any call other than 4N, natural and regressive, would not occur to me, even tho I 'know' from the spoilers that this may not work...won't if he passes.

Maybe he'll bid again.....in which case over all calls that begin with '5' I will bid 6♣.

[SteveMoe]

Playing Precision I would always open 1N regardless whether 1N is 14-16 or 15-17. There is no good rebid for 14-15 HCP hands. Conversely if I hold a 16+ balanced or semi-balanced hand with 5 card major, I always open 1♣ NQA. The only time I deviate from 1N is if the hand is something like ♠Jx ♥KQJxx ♦Jx ♣AKxx. Here the doubletons are too weak to consider this anything other than a 2-suited hand. I will risk the rebid issue in Precision. (No one uses opener's jump rebid of 2N to show 14-15 Bal/Semibal, and a J/S strongly implies 55 pattern, not 5422).

In 2/1 GF, I will almost always open 1♥ because i can recover more easily. 14-15 HCP hands are seam hands in Precision.

Over 1N-P-[3he]-P I'd choose 4♣, accepting the slam possibility here.

[Mbodell]

Agree with all of mikeh's posts. Over 1!h 1!s 2!c 2!d I'm bidding 2 nt. Over the 3!c continuation I'm bidding 3!d. This is how I should be bidding this hand, I think. The only 5M422 that bid 1nt should have horrible major suit. The opposite of this hand.

[helene_t]

I might rebid 1NT if systematically playing a strong or wide-ranging 1NT rebid. This is not because I prefer to describe the hand as balanced but because it is nice to be able to show my values without getting too high when partner is broke.

But opening a strong 1NT goes way too far. I dislike the idea that you have to misbid just because it's matchpoints.

[Zelandakh]

1♥ - 1♠; 2♣ - 2♦; 2♥ - 3♣; 3♦ works for me, although as I never play this system you can take it with a pinch of whatever white crystalline substance comes to mind. It is basically going to depend on what you use as your "nothing to say" bucket after fourth suit forcing. As I have pointed out before you can effectively simplify these sequences by using a 1♠ response as your forcing 1NT and making 1NT GF with spades (ie a form of inversion). That allows the auction over a 1♥ opening to progress along similar lines to the 1♠ opening.

[Cyberyeti]

Mbodell, on 2014-July-23, 03:53, said:

Agree with all of mikeh's posts. Over 1!h 1!s 2!c 2!d I'm bidding 2 nt. Over the 3!c continuation I'm bidding 3!d. This is how I should be bidding this hand, I think. The only 5M422 that bid 1nt should have horrible major suit. The opposite of this hand.

I'd also do this if 2♦ was FG, it isn't for me and 2N can be passed so I'd probably bid 3♦ to show extra strength without extra shape.

[WellSpyder]

Cyberyeti, on 2014-July-23, 07:25, said:

I'd also do this if 2♦ was FG, it isn't for me and 2N can be passed so I'd probably bid 3♦ to show extra strength without extra shape.

Exactly my thoughts. Maybe 4SF is be definition GF as far as OP is concerned, but it isn't to many of us. If the auction isn't GF by the time opener gets a third bid he really has to do something to show his maximum values.

[gordontd]

Zelandakh, on 2014-July-23, 05:53, said:

As I have pointed out before you can effectively simplify these sequences by using a 1♠ response as your forcing 1NT and making 1NT GF with spades (ie a form of inversion).

Do you really mean GF and not F1? How do you distinguish your weak or invitational hands with five spades from those with six or more, at a safe level?

[Zelandakh]

gordontd, on 2014-July-23, 08:22, said:

Do you really mean GF and not F1? How do you distinguish your weak or invitational hands with five spades from those with six or more, at a safe level?

In the same way as one would for heart-based hands after 1♠ - 1NT (forcing).

[gordontd]

Zelandakh, on 2014-July-23, 08:46, said:

In the same way as one would for heart-based hands after 1♠ - 1NT (forcing).

But the order of the suits means it's not really the same. How would you find a 5-3 spade fit at the two level without risking ending up at the three level when you didn't have such a fit?

[Zelandakh]

Can you give an example of the 1♠ auction you are thinking about? If you are worried about the suit order then you can fix this by using transfers on Opener's rebid although there are also other options. When I first came up with this it was designed to be used with Gazilli, with a 1NT rebid showing diamonds or extras and a 2♦ rebid showing spades (a sort of delayed Flannery). Perhaps you are forgetting that you have the 1NT rebid available after 1♥ - 1♠ to show a suit artificially?

[gordontd]

Zelandakh, on 2014-July-23, 09:05, said:

Can you give an example of the 1♠ auction you are thinking about? If you are worried about the suit order then you can fix this by using transfers on Opener's rebid although there are also other options. When I first came up with this it was designed to be used with Gazilli, with a 1NT rebid showing diamonds or extras and a 2♦ rebid showing spades (a sort of delayed Flannery). Perhaps you are forgetting that you have the 1NT rebid available after 1♥ - 1♠ to show a suit artificially?

I've played 1♥-1NT as forcing with spades and 1♥-1♠ as a forcing NT type hand with up to four spades in a Precision context, so that 1♥-1♠-1NT shows four spades as well as 5+ hearts, and it works well. But I can't imagine it being nearly as effective if I had to put all the weak & invitational hands with five or more spades into the 1♠ response too. I suppose you play 2♠ as a WJS, so that will take care of some of them, but I'd really like to be able to play in 2♠ when responder has a weak hand with five spades and opener has a 3514 hand, without risking the three level when instead he has 1534.

[phil_20686]

Open 1h, over 1s bid 2c, over 2d bid 2s.

This doesnt feel like a problem hand. If you insist on showing extras immediately over 2d maybe you are kind of endplayed into bidding 3N, but I hate that method.

Also, consider playing gazillli on this hand, then 1h-1s-2c = clubs nat or 17+, 2d 8+, 2N = 14-16 5h4c. (at least the way I play gazilli, there are many options)

[AreyHakaal]

Open 1 H then 2 C over 1S and if p bids 2D I rebid 2 Hearts shoeing a very good hearts suit and no preference for spade,diamond or NT for that matter.