[eagles123]

I just played this hand on BBO and didn't get a very good result - its IMPS

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what is best here?

thx

Eagles

[helene_t]

4n.

[broze]

Pass

[Jinksy]

If it's takeout, take it out. If it's penalty, do the other thing.

[nekthen]

4N For me. The 4S bid is unlimited with 3 plus ♠ if weak. I expect p to have some points and a 5 card suit somewhere. Law of total tricks implies that their are 19 tricks available (could be on either way but who knows?)

We rate for 5 to be a good sac or to make. If both are going off, then p should probably have kept quiet.

[GrahamJson]

4N is theoretically probably the best bid, but most random partners on BBO consider every 4NT bid as Blackwood and will tell you how many aces they have, so you will end up in a 4-2 fit at the five level.

[GrahamJson]

4N is theoretically probably the best bid, but most random partners on BBO consider every 4NT bid as Blackwood and will tell you how many aces they have, so you will end up in a 4-2 fit at the five level.

[eagles123]

well I did bid 4N but we missed a good slam

{comments}

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Eagles

[jillybean]

I must have drunk too much last night, my eyesight has deteriorated to the point I can't read the hand diagram.

As South I would have bid 4N/4♠ and 5♥ in the auction above but it's still a guess to get to 6.
Does anyone play 5♠ exclusion over 4♠?

[dosadi]

pass. dbl over 4s shd be penalty.4n is takeout over 4s(not 4h tho) showing a 2 or 3 suited hand, ie after the 4n if you respond 5c and p bids 5d that shows dia and hearts.

[whereagles]

eagles123, on 2014-December-25, 03:01, said:

well I did bid 4N but we missed a good slam

Be glad you guessed the suit right. Getting suit + level always right after a pree would obsoletize preempting LOL.

[broze]

Double is criminal! S has a 4N bid.

Merry Christmas!

[wank]

4nt shows a good hand. good enough for south to know slam might be on, but no, not good enough for him to do anything about it.

that's life. insert pre-empt related cliche here. and lol at those saying south shouldn't double.

[bdegrande]

Pass, you have good defensive values and partner is forcing you to bid at the five level, you should beat 4♠ pretty comfortably. Take the plus score at IMPs. There is no way to know whether five of anything is making. Your spade shortness makes it very unlikely that partner has a big distributional hand. On the actual hand, partner's double is awful, that hand should bid 4NT.

And, for whatever it's worth, the slam is not such a good one, requiring the opening preempt to have the diamond K.

[helene_t]

I prefer 4NT to dbl by South but dbl is take-out in modern bidding so it is not absurd. The concentration of honours in the long suits makes it a bad double, though. If North bids 5♦ on a 5-card suit, 5♣/♥ is probably a better contract so dbl only works if North has six diamonds.

I don't think 4NT by North promises any values so you can't reach slam unless North makes a move. Sometimes preempts work.

Give East both diamond honours and the slam is a nice Christmas puzzle for intermediate players It is still down on a diamond lead if played by South, though.

[helene_t]

jillybean, on 2014-December-25, 03:18, said:

Does anyone play 5♠ exclusion over 4♠?

I don't think so. First priority is to find a fit, once you have found it you can make control bids or ask for keycards etc.

[ahydra]

I also prefer 4NT to X because the hand is two-suited. Whether North bids just 5C or makes a move with 5NT is really very close. I think I would bid 5NT since we have a huge double-fit and partner could have passed knowing I can still protect, so should have at least some extras. (Given players bid 4S on almost anything these days it's probably better to play 4NT as highly constructive - cf. the other thread with discussion of TOXing a weak two vs an intermediate two.)

However this does makes me wonder whether double is a better choice just because it shows the strength - though in this case it leads to missing the slam.

I don't understand bdegrande's claim that the slam isn't very good - it seems to be 100% on a non-diamond lead, barring a 4-0 trump break. Say we're in 6C on the lead of SA, we draw trumps, play hearts for a while then run the D10. Regardless of the diamond layout we make it because East is endplayed.

ahydra

[steve2005]

eagles123, on 2014-December-25, 03:01, said:

well I did bid 4N but we missed a good slam
Eagles

No shame in missing a slam. That's why people pre-empt so often, it's hard to have constructive bidding over it.

Diagram so small, I wont try to comment on actual hand

[brettnj]

I would never have doubled with partner's hand - a clear 4n bid (at least two suits to play in), & over which you could bid 5n (pick a slam). At imps, it is not a significant difference whether you are in 6c or 6h.

[fourdad]

Hopefully you have agreed with your partner that a X of a game bid is either a penalty or takeout. Also, hopefully you have agreed that a X of a major either promises the other major or it does not.

If you have these agreements, follow them! If not, enjoy guessing and the scores that guessing brings about!