[eagles123]

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Matchpoints 2s is weak 2

you play leb

thanks

Eagles

[helene_t]

I chick out in 3♣. I think PhilKing plays 2NT as natural in this position but I play it as scramling. 3NT could work but ....

[WesleyC]

Even if you generally play lebensohl, 2NT is this sequence it must be a scramble.

Either way it can't hurt to bid 2NT.

[wank]

this is tricky

1) i'm scared about missing game in hearts. x qxxxx qjxx axx for example is a very boring hand where 4h is good. if partner only has 4, i think it'll normally be too much work to do.
2) i don't want to defend their 9 card fit at the 2 level though i expect it to go off. if we bid lho will sometimes bid 3s and now we can extract a penalty.

maybe there's no way to sensibly get to 4h on the right hands and i should just scramble to a minor and hope they return to the fray. on the other hand, scrambling might get us to a 7 card minor fit instead of an 8 card heart fit.

given there's nothing ideal, i'd go for the money shot and bid 3s. that way partner can bid 4h with 5. we end up a level higher when he doesn't, but there's a good chance we can make that anyway. i won't be raising 4m to 5.

[PhilKing]

Yep, natural 2NT for me (3♣ is also fine).

When there has been no raise and a protective double, our average spade length is just under four and our average point count is about 12 or so. Call me crazy, but it seems daft not to have a bid that reflects that.

I think partner rates to have a doubleton spade more often than not, so we can often shut out the spades. If partner is 1444 I should bid 3♣, but if he has short spades and a reasonable five card suit, he can pull 2NT to his suit.

[ggwhiz]

My partnership doesn't open as light as most so I'm tempted to bid 2nt followed by 3nt, expressing doubt so that partner can remove with the shapely thing.

Maybe that should be reserved for imps with a quiet 3♣ at mp's.

[Jinksy]

PhilKing, on 2015-June-04, 08:15, said:

Yep, natural 2NT for me (3♣ is also fine).

What determines when 2N is nat vs when it's Lebensohl?

[PhilKing]

Jinksy, on 2015-June-04, 12:25, said:

What determines when 2N is nat vs when it's Lebensohl?

2any-pass-pass-dbl
pass-?

Regardless of whether the doubler is a passed hand.

[MrAce]

PhilKing, on 2015-June-04, 13:14, said:

2any-pass-pass-dbl
pass-?

Regardless of whether the doubler is a passed hand.

So in response to a dbl in pass out seat vs weak 2.

[WesleyC]

PhilKing, on 2015-June-04, 08:15, said:

Yep, natural 2NT for me (3♣ is also fine).

When there has been no raise and a protective double, our average spade length is just under four and our average point count is about 12 or so. Call me crazy, but it seems daft not to have a bid that reflects that.

I think partner rates to have a doubleton spade more often than not, so we can often shut out the spades. If partner is 1444 I should bid 3♣, but if he has short spades and a reasonable five card suit, he can pull 2NT to his suit.

No disrespect intended, but using 2NT as a final contract suggestion in a spot where the board is known to be a part-score contest and partner has announced a weakish shapely hand with shortness in the opponents' suit actually does sound pretty crazy!

This is a situation where having a bid which 'shows your hand' should take a backseat to having a bid which 'gets you to the right contract'. Aiming to accurately bid 12 HCP hands with spade length and strength, but not too much spade length and strength, that can make exactly 2NT but no other 3 level part-score is simply aiming at too small a target.

Using 2NT as an artificial scramble helps you get to the best 3-level part-score most of the time and affords a sensible call on otherwise impossible hands [xxxx AKx Qxx Kxx???]. It also has lots of incidental benefits like allowing partner to balance more aggressively on off-shape hands and being able to differentiate between a invitational 3H (bid 3H directly) or a non-invitational 3H (scramble there via 2NT).

However I'm sure you've heard these arguments before...

[zillahandp]

2nt next pls , keep learning eagles

[eagles123]

zillahandp, on 2015-June-05, 14:47, said:

2nt next pls , keep learning eagles

getting boring now dude

[jodepp]

Is opener likely to open '3rd seat trash'? Is responder the type to raise a third-seat weak-2 liberally? If either applies, I might just convert the double for penalty. (Law be damned.)

I don't expect much agreement from the masses on this one, but what the he&^#%, it's only matchpoints

[nige1]

eagles123, on 2015-June-04, 06:27, said:

Matchpoints 2s is weak 2

you play leb

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IMO 2N = 10, 3♣ = 9, 3♠ = 7, 3N = 6. Game is unlikely opposite a passed partner, so 2N = Scramble (or PhilKing's suggestion) makes more sense than Lebensohl.

[MrAce]

zillahandp, on 2015-June-05, 14:47, said:

2nt next pls , keep learning eagles

[marcindz]

I would ask myself what I want to achieve. Seems likely that 3NT is makeable easily if S holds any points in spades.

My guess is straight 3NT selling no spade stopper, forcing my p to show his spade by passing or go on 4 level and then i will pass being happy with what i got.

If I was looking for partscore 3 clubs.

[nekthen]

Matchpoints and playing leb. I think I would have doubled myself. I am a point short of being able to bid 2N, I think I need 15-18 for that. After my double partner can bid a suit which I pass or use leb. Worst case scenario is an immediate 3♠, which I convert to 3N or 3N which I pass.

Once I have passed can partner place me with a 14 count? 2N seems like the right next move, but it would be nice if we had an agreement as to what it meant! Natural, Scramble or Leb

[Cyberyeti]

I don't have 2N nat available here (2 places to play rather than leb) and partner won't have an unbalanced 11 or a lot of unbalanced 10s so bidding game is shooting for a very small target.

Playing leb as per the OP, I need to know how aggressively partner opens, but I suspect 3♣ is the right bid.

[KurtGodel]

WesleyC, on 2015-June-05, 00:30, said:

No disrespect intended, but using 2NT as a final contract suggestion in a spot where the board is known to be a part-score contest and partner has announced a weakish shapely hand with shortness in the opponents' suit actually does sound pretty crazy!

When you're a passed hand you can pull it.