[Winstonm]

PassedOut, on 2023-March-26, 16:03, said:

Case in point: Florida parents upset by Michelangelo’s ‘David’ force out principal

I doubt many will agree with me but I am convinced that fundamentalist religiosity-Christian, Catholic, and Islamic-is the scourge of our planet.

[pilowsky]

Winstonm, on 2023-March-26, 17:04, said:

I doubt many will agree with me but I am convinced that fundamentalist religiosity-Christian, Catholic, and Islamic-is the scourge of our planet.

Well ChatGPT seems to think that there are good people on both sides...
Q. Is fundamentalist religion a good or bad thing?

ChatGPT said:

As an AI language model, I cannot make subjective judgments about the value of fundamentalist religion. However, I can provide some information about fundamentalist religion and its impact.

Fundamentalism refers to a strict adherence to the basic principles of a particular religion. It can manifest in different ways across different religions, but in general, fundamentalists believe that their interpretation of scripture or religious texts is the only correct one and that any deviation from their beliefs is unacceptable.

While fundamentalism can provide a sense of community and purpose for its adherents, it can also lead to exclusionary attitudes towards those who do not share the same beliefs. In extreme cases, fundamentalism can be associated with violence and extremism, as seen in some terrorist organizations.

On the other hand, many people find comfort and guidance in their religious beliefs, including those who hold fundamentalist views. Additionally, religious communities can play an important role in supporting charitable and social welfare programs.

Ultimately, the impact of fundamentalism depends on the specific beliefs and actions of the individuals and groups involved, and it is up to each person to decide whether they believe it is a good or bad thing.

[kenberg]

About parents, 6th grade, and Michelangelo:
I will start with a true story. I started 7th grade when I was 11, and the teacher, no doubt with good intentions, talked a lot about The Red menace and how the country needed to be ready for war. My mother was usually of the opinion that the schools can do as they please but in this case, she got worked up. She did not intervene, but she made it clear to me that she objected to what this teacher was doing. How would she have reacted if my sixth-grade teacher had shown the class a picture, yes, a famous artistic picture, of a naked man? I am confident that my mother never heard of Michelangelo, I very much doubt she had ever been in an art museum or ever planned to do so. I believe that she would have thought that an adult showing a picture of a naked man to 10-year-olds was an adult showing a picture of a naked man to 10-year-olds, that would be what it was, no further explanation needed. this would not be because of religious beliefs, my mother sent me to Sunday School but that was the beginning and the end of any sort of religious instruction for me. With regard to the Red Menace and war, her view was that all wars are about oil. When I said that I didn't think there was any oil in Korea (this was during the Korean war) she said 'They are fighting there, there is il there". Her views about adults showing pictures of naked men to children would have been equally brief and definite.

My mother had run away from home when she was 14. Her views on just about anything were unsophisticated, but not altogether crazy. With regard to war, if she had maintained that the decision to go to war was often linked to economic issues, probably many scholars would have agreed with her. And if she said that children should be cautious when an adult wants to show them pictures of naked men or women, I expect that the police and many others would agree.

As a child, I was given a great deal of freedom to explore on my own. Exploring on my own is very different from having an adult guide my exploration in a way that the adult thinks that I should go. We can probably all agree that David was a great piece of art. So is the Mona Lisa, and parents could relax about the teacher's intent. I saw the 1952 movie Moulin Rouge in 1952 with Jose Ferrer playing Toullouse-Lautrec. It was a bit upsetting to 13-year-old me. But I was 13, not 10, and the choice to see it was mine, not some teacher's.


Short version: Parents are watching out for their kids. Maybe these parents are unsophisticated, but there are some good features to being unsophisticated. Thinking that these parents are simply stupid religious zealots is, perhaps, unsophisticated.

[Manastorm]

Well said. It would be interesting to hear how the school master was sacked with so much good intention?

[Manastorm]

Where I am from there isn't anythin unusual to see a statue of a naked man in a public place. Already two such statues come to my mind and they are dead centre of a city. Do such things exist in USA at all? If they do exist how can a picture of a naked statue cause such an uproar? Surely one of the members was tiny bit educated and realized this is utterly stupid, but no. Can't even reverse the idiotic decision.

[akwoo]

Manastorm, on 2023-March-27, 10:18, said:

Where I am from there isn't anythin unusual to see a statue of a naked man in a public place. Already two such statues come to my mind and they are dead centre of a city. Do such things exist in USA at all? If they do exist how can a picture of a naked statue cause such an uproar? Surely one of the members was tiny bit educated and realized this is utterly stupid, but no. Can't even reverse the idiotic decision.

Many parts of the US are very rural.

I live in a county of 40,000 people in 2800 km^2, two thirds of which is in the town that is the county seat. I would guess that the nearest statue of a naked person is about 500 km away (in the nearest city of over a million people).

There are indeed a significant number of people living in this county who have never ventured that far away, even on holiday.

[pescetom]

akwoo, on 2023-March-27, 14:45, said:

Many parts of the US are very rural.

I live in a county of 40,000 people in 2800 km^2, two thirds of which is in the town that is the county seat. I would guess that the nearest statue of a naked person is about 500 km away (in the nearest city of over a million people).

There are indeed a significant number of people living in this county who have never ventured that far away, even on holiday.

Many parts of Europe are very rural too, in particular in France and Spain and even some parts of Italy.
I live in a town of exactly the size you mention and we have about that number of people in the surrounding countryside too.
The nearest statue of a naked person is just 80km away, but in a city of over a million people.
Some people have never ventured even that far, 1 hour by train.
But I would bet that everyone over 12 years old has seen Davide of Michelangelo, either in a school book or (more likely) on their smartphone.
And that their reaction was simple awe and admiration.

[pilowsky]

Actually, there are a few statues of nudes on display in the USA.
Here's one of them.

Edit. - they were removed.

[Winstonm]

Many part of the U.S. are very stupid.
Not necessarily rural.

[kenberg]

People grow up in different ways.

I grew up in St. Paul and the only local statue I can recall is one of Hiawatha carrying Minnehaha. This was in Minneapolis near Minnehaha Falls. llink

There was also a statue of Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox in Brainerd where my grandmother lived but I see from Wikipedia that this has been replaced by a talking statue at an amusement park. Oh well.

When I was older I went to the Walker Art Gallery in Minneapolis which no doubt had and has statues but I don't remember them. I spent a lot more time at Minnehaha Falls than I did at Walker.

I am going back to St. Paul in a couple of weeks to visit some friends from the 1950s. I'll ask about statues. Don't hold your breath.

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on 2023-March-28, 09:30, said:

People grow up in different ways.

I grew up in St. Paul and the only local statue I can recall is one of Hiawatha carrying Minnehaha. This was in Minneapolis near Minnehaha Falls. llink

There was also a statue of Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox in Brainerd where my grandmother lived but I see from Wikipedia that this has been replaced by a talking statue at an amusement park. Oh well.

When I was older I went to the Walker Art Gallery in Minneapolis which no doubt had and has statues but I don't remember them. I spent a lot more time at Minnehaha Falls than I did at Walker.

I am going back to St. Paul in a couple of weeks to visit some friends from the 1950s. I'll ask about statues. Don't hold your breath.

Watch out for a kind of funny looking fellow around Brainerd. He might be with another guy who has blond hair. Dealer Tags on the car.

[kenberg]

Winstonm, on 2023-March-28, 13:46, said:

Watch out for a kind of funny looking fellow around Brainerd. He might be with another guy who has blond hair. Dealer Tags on the car.

This reference escapes me. But I seem to recall some we had brief discussions earlier about Brainerd. Winson in Brainerd! I would not think "Winston" and "Brainerd" would be in the same sentence.

Anyway, getting back to Michelangelo and all. I was 10 when I started 6th grade. I say with great confidence that none of my friends knew or cared who Michelangelo was. Should we say OMG, something should be done about that? Ok, but when we were 10? When I was 13 I read One, Two Three, Infinity and I saw Moulin Rouge with Jose Ferrer playing Toulousse-Lautrec. When I was 10 I listened to Marty O'Neil with his play-by-play description of the Saint Paul Saints. Eric Tipton was an outfielder and I believe he batted clean-up. Danny Ozark was, I think, an infielder and was, well, I think, the leadoff batter. I saw She Wore a Yellow Ribbon. A different set of interests.

Kids need to grow up and they need to learn, but let's go easy on rushing them. There was a big difference between 10-year-old me and 13-year-old me and again a big difference with 17-year-old me. Don't rush it.

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on 2023-March-29, 08:24, said:

This reference escapes me. But I seem to recall some we had brief discussions earlier about Brainerd. Winson in Brainerd! I would not think "Winston" and "Brainerd" would be in the same sentence.

Anyway, getting back to Michelangelo and all. I was 10 when I started 6th grade. I say with great confidence that none of my friends knew or cared who Michelangelo was. Should we say OMG, something should be done about that? Ok, but when we were 10? When I was 13 I read One, Two Three, Infinity and I saw Moulin Rouge with Jose Ferrer playing Toulousse-Lautrec. When I was 10 I listened to Marty O'Neil with his play-by-play description of the Saint Paul Saints. Eric Tipton was an outfielder and I believe he batted clean-up. Danny Ozark was, I think, an infielder and was, well, I think, the leadoff batter. I saw She Wore a Yellow Ribbon. A different set of interests.

Kids need to grow up and they need to learn, but let's go easy on rushing them. There was a big difference between 10-year-old me and 13-year-old me and again a big difference with 17-year-old me. Don't rush it.

The reference is to the movie “Fargo”.

[kenberg]

Winstonm, on 2023-March-29, 11:31, said:

The reference is to the movie "Fargo".

Ah, Fargo. It's been a while. I think Minnesotans either really liked it or really didn't like it, nothing in-between. I really liked it.

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on 2023-March-29, 13:21, said:

Ah, Fargo. It's been a while. I think Minnesotans either really liked it or really didn't like it, nothing in-between. I really liked it.

While you are there, steer clear of any bridge partners who have a wood chipper 😉

[pilowsky]

OMG! Will there be a perp walk?
Trump indicted by grand jury.

[Winstonm]

pilowsky, on 2023-March-30, 16:16, said:

OMG! Will there be a perp walk?
Trump indicted by grand jury.

There must be a booking, meaning fingerprints and mugshots.

[pilowsky]

Winstonm, on 2023-March-30, 18:33, said:

There must be a booking, meaning fingerprints and mugshots.

It's a start.

[Winstonm]

pilowsky, on 2023-March-30, 19:58, said:

It's a start.

The reporting is there are 34 charged crimes but the indictment is sealed so we don’t know what the crimes are.

[barmar]

We'll know the charges tomorrow.

Trump will of course plead not guilty to all of them, and then immediately announce on Truth Social that he's been totally exonerated (he'll probably misspell it).