[Winstonm]

The Minority president:

Quote

Across the battery of questions in the survey, Trump’s hardcore base of support appears to be about a quarter of the public, give or take:

24 percent say that, since taking office, Trump has “acted in a way that’s fitting and proper for a president of the United States.” Seventy percent say Trump has acted in a way that is “unpresidential.”

24 percent approve of Trump’s use of Twitter. Just 13 percent strongly approve. Two-thirds disapprove of the president’s use of social media, and 53 percent strongly disapprove.
Compared with previous presidents, 23 percent think “Trump is doing a better job than most.” While 17 percent say he’s doing a “much better” job, 38 percent think he’s doing “much worse.”

3 in 10 believe Trump is “a positive role model for young people.” For perspective, 18 percent said the same of Bill Clinton in a Post/ABC poll conducted the week after the salacious Starr Report was released in 1998.

27 percent think “America’s leadership in the world has gotten stronger” under Trump.

26 percent believe it was appropriate for Trump’s son, Donald Jr., to meet last summer with a Russian lawyer who said she had damaging information about Hillary Clinton. (This includes just less than half of Republicans.)

Despite all evidence to the contrary, just over 3 in 10 Americans still do not think the Russian government tried to influence the outcome of last fall’s U.S. presidential election.

While 34 percent trust Trump to negotiate on America’s behalf with other world leaders, only 19 percent trust him “a great deal.” The other 15 percent trust him just “a good amount.” Two-thirds of the country does not trust Trump at all in negotiations, which is remarkable when you think back to how heavily he emphasized his negotiating skills during the campaign.

On health care, 24 percent favor the Republican plan over Obamacare. Seventeen percent “strongly” favor the GOP plan, which was not explained in detail.

source; https://www.washingt...m=.b163797df2db

[RedSpawn]

[please delete]

[RedSpawn]

With respect to the metadata of telephone call details the US government holds on millions of its US citizens without probable cause:

Zelandakh, on 2015-August-26, 02:27, said:

And yet the fact that several companies hold such databases, often holding much more personal information than the government would keep, is perfectly ok?



I think a reasonable baseline is that a baby gets the nationality of its parents and a change of nationality to their country of residence can be applied for after a suitable period, something of the order of 5 years. Does that seem like a sensible way of bringing in the various factors to you? It would mean that, had you stayed in Sweden, your children could decide if they felt more Swedish than Dutch and choose accordingly.

cherdano, on 2015-August-27, 10:32, said:

That is reasonable. What would not be reasonable is to have a secret database listing all metadata of their recent phone calls/internet access etc. (But of course one would have to be paranoid to believe governments would even collect such data.)

And therein lies the paradox of the surveillance state. How dare anyone suggest that the government would covertly collect meta data on its citizens' telephone calls as a precautionary measure and violate the Constitution. You would have to be paranoid or a nut job to consider, think, or suggest such things. . .until Edward Snowden whistleblows and shows how big our Big Brother has gotten.

[RedSpawn]

RedSpawn, on 2017-May-27, 13:36, said:

I think we have to take a step back here.

It is very important that we have a healthy level of professional skepticism of any source from whom we receive information. And yes, that even includes members of the Western Intelligence services and law enforcement community.

COINTELPRO was under the Federal Bureau of Investigation but it gathered intelligence illegally, violated Constitutional rights, and was known for disseminating propaganda. See link: https://en.wikipedia...iki/COINTELPRO.

The huge intelligence failure regarding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was committed by 16 different members of the Western intelligence community and led to an extended, costly war campaign.

Edward Snowden revealed a mass surveillance program that again undermined the Constitutional rights of all American citizens, millions of whom have not committed crimes, and yet were the subject of mass electronic illegal searches and seizures. See https://en.wikipedia...Edward_Snowden.

Quote

In March 2014, documents disclosed by Glenn Greenwald writing for The Intercept showed the NSA, in cooperation with the GCHQ, has plans to infect millions of computers with malware using a program called "Turbine." Revelations included information about "QUANTUMHAND," a program through which the NSA set up a fake Facebook server to intercept connections.

According to a report in The Washington Post in July 2014, relying on information furnished by Snowden, 90% of those placed under surveillance in the U.S. are ordinary Americans, and are not the intended targets. The newspaper said it had examined documents including emails, message texts, and online accounts, that support the claim.

In an August 2014 interview, Snowden for the first time disclosed a cyberwarfare program in the works, codenamed MonsterMind. The program would "automate the process of hunting for the beginnings of a foreign cyberattack". The software would constantly look for traffic patterns indicating known or suspected attacks. What sets MonsterMind apart was that it would add a "unique new capability: instead of simply detecting and killing the malware at the point of entry, MonsterMind would automatically fire back, with no human involvement". Snowden expressed concern that often initial attacks are routed through computers in innocent third countries. "These attacks can be spoofed. You could have someone sitting in China, for example, making it appear that one of these attacks is originating in Russia. And then we end up shooting back at a Russian hospital. What happens next?" [bold and ital mine]

So, the ransomware attack in China, was it really executed by North Korea, or could it be Operation "Turbine" perpetrated by any partners of the Five Eyes global surveillance program as a false pretext to war or military action? Or could it have been a preemptive move to get bad actors like China to (1) curtail its ubiquitous software piracy (2) encourage its citizens and businesses to destroy bootleg copies of Microsoft Windows and (3) recommend that all users purchase legal software licenses with appropriate security patches to avoid future malware attacks. This would protect Western intellectual property rights and promote the U.S. economy. Snowden already said the NSA had attacks like these in the pipeline.

As citizens of a constitutional Republic, we must determine how much of our Constitutional freedoms we are willing to sacrifice to help our government provide more security. I am surprised that our nation doesn't appear to be extremely disturbed by the revelations of Edward Snowden's actions. It appears we have officially entered the era of "thought police".

Note: I am not suggesting Edward Snowden is a hero or a traitor. He just pulled back the curtain to reveal how Western intelligence services can abuse their powers and violate the Constitution if their powers remain hidden, unchecked and unquestioned. That is not what I call a conspiracy. It is just an inconvenient truth of our journey towards a surveillance state.

https://www.youtube....h?v=oADlQPJ_Zfc

Makes me wonder what exactly is the endgame of the surveillance state as the freedoms of citizens get chipped away one Amendment at a time.

Quote

You walk into this room at your own risk, because it leads to the future, not a future that will be but one that might be.

This is not a new world, it is simply an extension of what began in the old one.

It has patterned itself after every dictator who has ever planted the ripping imprint of a boot on the pages of history since the beginning of time.

It has refinements, technological advances, and a more sophisticated approach to the destruction of human freedom.

But like every one of the super-states that preceded it, it has one iron rule: logic is an enemy and truth is a menace.

Any State, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man. . .that State is obsolete.

This is Mr. Romney Wordsworth, in his last forty-eight hours on Earth.

He's a citizen of the State but will soon have to be eliminated, because he's built out of flesh and because he has a mind.

Mr. Romney Wordsworth, who will draw his last breaths in The Twilight Zone.

[Winstonm]

Seriously, dude, you need to start your own government plots thread instead of insisting on continued attempts to hijack this one.

[RedSpawn]

Winstonm, on 2017-July-17, 12:08, said:

Seriously, dude, you need to start your own government plots thread instead of insisting on continued attempts to hijack this one.

How can I hijack a discussion group responding to quotes from this very discussion group topic? I haven't changed the content of the quotes I am responding to.

By the way, you didn't answer the question. If someone came to you and said they think the government is covertly keeping telephone metadata on millions of US Citizen's because of 09/11, would you think said person was paranoid, a nutjob, a conspiracy theorist, or a dissident?

Chances are, at a minimum, you would at least think they are paranoid EVEN WHEN the federal government is doing the very act that you think it would not do. Somehow, we believe that our own government wouldn't betray our trust until a brave person like Snowden shows us a very inconvenient truth.

Again, I am not suggesting Edward Snowden is a traitor or a hero, the courts can decide that matter. However, Snowden is a courageous person for showing us "REALITY" and the inconvenient truth we don't want to believe. I believe a good measure of citizens prefer to believe the comfort of partisan based propaganda (courtesy of fingertip technology) than to have to hold our government accountable to the Constitution.

[RedSpawn]

Winstonm, on 2017-July-17, 09:10, said:

The Minority president:

Across the battery of questions in the survey, Trump’s hardcore base of support appears to be about a quarter of the public, give or take:

24 percent say that, since taking office, Trump has “acted in a way that’s fitting and proper for a president of the United States.” Seventy percent say Trump has acted in a way that is “unpresidential.”

24 percent approve of Trump’s use of Twitter. Just 13 percent strongly approve. Two-thirds disapprove of the president’s use of social media, and 53 percent strongly disapprove.
Compared with previous presidents, 23 percent think “Trump is doing a better job than most.” While 17 percent say he’s doing a “much better” job, 38 percent think he’s doing “much worse.”

3 in 10 believe Trump is “a positive role model for young people.” For perspective, 18 percent said the same of Bill Clinton in a Post/ABC poll conducted the week after the salacious Starr Report was released in 1998.

27 percent think “America’s leadership in the world has gotten stronger” under Trump.

26 percent believe it was appropriate for Trump’s son, Donald Jr., to meet last summer with a Russian lawyer who said she had damaging information about Hillary Clinton. (This includes just less than half of Republicans.)

Despite all evidence to the contrary, just over 3 in 10 Americans still do not think the Russian government tried to influence the outcome of last fall’s U.S. presidential election.

While 34 percent trust Trump to negotiate on America’s behalf with other world leaders, only 19 percent trust him “a great deal.” The other 15 percent trust him just “a good amount.” Two-thirds of the country does not trust Trump at all in negotiations, which is remarkable when you think back to how heavily he emphasized his negotiating skills during the campaign.

On health care, 24 percent favor the Republican plan over Obamacare. Seventeen percent “strongly” favor the GOP plan, which was not explained in detail.

source; https://www.washingt...m=.b163797df2db

So why don't we start impeachment proceedings for Trump and waste more money and government time in a political process where Republicans own the House and Senate. Republicans are going to vote NOT GUILTY on the articles because impeachment is a political proceeding and not a criminal one.

[Winstonm]

RedSpawn, on 2017-July-17, 12:57, said:

So why don't we start impeachment proceedings for Trump and waste more money and government time in a political process where Republicans own the House and Senate. Republicans are going to vote NOT GUILTY on the articles because impeachment is a political proceeding and not a criminal one.

As you should know, the fact that the Republicans control Congress means there will be no impeachment proceedings until Republican re-election chances are dramatically damaged by Trump. I would estimate that would take poll approval numbers consistently in the 25-29% range.

Here is the reality of our situation. Change takes time. It is normal for people to be reluctant to admit they made a mistake. What this means is that what you will see with Trump voters is a slow move from support to non-support, not an overnight slap of the forehead, what-have-I-done moment but a slippage from strong support to mild support to weak support to neutral to finally disapproval - the good news is that this slippage is moving at a remarkably fast rate. It is not the 36% overall approval rating that is critical but the number of "strong approvals" that has dramatically dropped in 6 months.

[Winstonm]

Furthermore, the most disheartening reality is that we somehow placed this man Trump in a position he could not envisage in his wildest dream - above the normal constraints of law and law enforcement. Who is going to arrest and prosecute the president of the United States? We can only hope for a reckoning - with hell riding with it. Who's our huckleberry?

[ggwhiz]

Winstonm, on 2017-July-17, 13:48, said:

As you should know, the fact that the Republicans control Congress means there will be no impeachment proceedings until Republican re-election chances are dramatically damaged by Trump. I would estimate that would take poll approval numbers consistently in the 25-29% range.

That is an overall view but as GOP Senators as well as Congress continue to get blowback in their home districts during the recess and we get closer to 2018 they will start counting seats. I don't think it will take numbers as low as you chose or a long time given that it will take some time to right the ship under President (ugh) Pence but he's a smooth talker and could pull it off given enough lead time.

[y66]

From Health Care Overhaul Collapses as Two Republican Senators Defect:

Quote

WASHINGTON — Two more Republican senators declared on Monday night that they would oppose the Senate Republican bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act, killing, for now, a seven-year-old promise to overturn President Barack Obama’s signature domestic achievement.

The announcement by the senators, Mike Lee of Utah and Jerry Moran of Kansas, left their leaders at least two votes short of the number needed to begin debate on their bill to dismantle the health law. Two other Republican senators, Rand Paul of Kentucky and Susan Collins of Maine, had already said they would not support a procedural step to begin debate.

With four solid votes against the bill, Republican leaders now have two options.

They can try to rewrite it in a way that can secure 50 Republican votes, a seeming impossibility since the defecting senators are not suggesting small changes to the existing bill but a fresh start. Or they can work with Democrats on a narrower measure to fix the flaws in the Affordable Care Act that both parties acknowledge.

Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, conceded Monday night that “the effort to repeal and immediately replace the failure of Obamacare will not be successful.” But he said he would move to pass a measure to repeal the Affordable Care Act now, then work on a replacement over the next two years. That has almost no chance to pass, either, since it could leave millions without insurance and leave insurance markets in turmoil.

But President Trump was not ready to give up. He immediately took to Twitter to say: “Republicans should just REPEAL failing ObamaCare now & work on a new Healthcare Plan that will start from a clean slate. Dems will join in!”

What else is new?.

[RedSpawn]

y66, on 2017-July-17, 21:33, said:

From Health Care Overhaul Collapses as Two Republican Senators Defect:


What else is new?.

If Congress can only be this adamant about military spending bills which are $93 billion more than Trump requested for 2018.

I like the repeal and replace later idea. It's built on a foundation of trust that politicians haven't earned.

[y66]

From the NYT Editorial Board:

Quote

Republican legislative leaders are in a bind. While they appear to have failed for now in their goal of destroying the Affordable Care Act, their eagerness to shower tax breaks on the wealthy at the expense of health coverage for millions of Americans has crimped their ability to pass other fiscal legislation.

This is not a lament. It’s just as well that they haven’t done anything big, given their goals. But it is a stunning demonstration of incompetence that, with control of the House, the Senate and the White House for six months, Republicans have not only failed to enact any major bills but have also created a legislative logjam that is bound to get worse.

This is largely because congressional leaders have tried to overcome solid Democratic opposition by using “reconciliation” rules — which prevent a Senate filibuster when applied to certain legislation on revenue, spending or the debt limit. But until the health care reconciliation measure is either passed or abandoned, they cannot use those rules to pass other legislation, like broad tax cuts for the wealthy that are a key element of their agenda.

With Senators Mike Lee of Utah and Jerry Moran of Kansas announcing their opposition to the health bill on Monday night, and with only two weeks before the summer break, passage of a bill that some Republicans believe would cut coverage too deeply and others believe would not cut taxes or benefits enough seemed doomed.

But Republican infighting and, by extension, legislative disarray won’t stop there. When Congress returns in September, lawmakers will have less than a month to pass budget bills before the 2018 fiscal year begins on Oct. 1. If they miss that deadline, they risk a government shutdown.

To complicate matters, soon after the next fiscal year starts, the debt ceiling will need to be raised, which will be a difficult vote for Republicans who have threatened in the past to default rather than approve more borrowing. During most of the Obama years, Republicans used legislative tactics to delay or block Democratic bills, precipitate government shutdowns over Democratic budgets and risk default rather than raise the debt limit in a timely way. Now they are in charge, and yet legislation is stalled, a shutdown may be impending and a raise in the debt ceiling is again in doubt.

After years spent as obstructionists, obstruction seems to be all they know. Now they’re obstructing themselves, a good thing since it may limit their ability to do harm.

[Winstonm]

Has the Republican party become the enemy? From Politico:


http://www.politico....of-putin-215387

Quote

How did the party of Ronald Reagan’s moral clarity morph into that of Donald Trump’s moral vacuity? Russia’s intelligence operatives are among the world’s best. I believe they made a keen study of the American political scene and realized that, during the Obama years, the conservative movement had become ripe for manipulation. Long gone was its principled opposition to the “evil empire.” What was left was an intellectually and morally desiccated carcass populated by con artists, opportunists, entertainers and grifters operating massively profitable book publishers, radio empires, websites, and a TV network whose stock-in-trade are not ideas but resentments.

[y66]

Stupidity, boorishness and unenlightened self interest are the enemy. At the moment, the Republican party happens to have more of all 3 than any party can bare. But it's not like they have a monopoly on stupidity.

[Winstonm]

Trump is calling the democrats "obstructionists" after Trumpcare failed. He keeps using that word but I don't think it means what he thinks it means.

[Zelandakh]

Winstonm, on 2017-July-18, 15:15, said:

Trump is calling the democrats "obstructionists" after Trumpcare failed. He keeps using that word but I don't think it means what he thinks it means.

Quote

When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.

[Al_U_Card]

RedSpawn, on 2017-July-18, 03:33, said:

If Congress can only be this adamant about military spending bills which are $93 billion more than Trump requested for 2018.

I like the repeal and replace later idea. It's built on a foundation of trust that politicians haven't earned.

If it means money in the pockets of a given politician's backers, then expect them to back it to the hilt. (Pork-barreling 101.)

[Winstonm]

Another shoe - how many is this now?

Quote

When President Trump’s meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin went for more than two hours, well past the scheduled half-hour, it was a major news event. But it turns out that wasn’t even the end of the conversation between the two men.

Ian Bremmer, president of the Eurasia Group, first reported the second meeting Tuesday. Other outlets also reported the news, and the White House confirmed it to Reuters. (BuzzFeed journalist Alberto Nardelli had previously reported about a meeting.) Trump reportedly met with the Russian leader for an additional hour of informal chats after a dinner of G20 leaders—though the White House in a statement reported late Tuesday by NBC’s Hallie Jackson called the encounter “brief” and denied it constituted a second meeting. While the first meeting was small—the only attendees were Trump, Putin, the Russian foreign minister, Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, and one interpreter from each country—this was even smaller: just Trump, Putin, and a Russian interpreter. Trump did not have his own interpreter.

[ldrews]

Winstonm, on 2017-July-18, 18:13, said:

Another shoe - how many is this now?

Do you remember how many shoes Immelda Marcos had?