[Chas_P]

Winstonm, on 2019-February-07, 18:48, said:

Regardless, trying to provide a better economic environment for everyone is a worthy goal, is it not?

Karl Marx thought so. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

[Winstonm]

Chas_P, on 2019-February-07, 19:46, said:

Karl Marx thought so. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs."

I have no fear of the quotations or the ideas of Karl Marx. The fact that you raise the spectre as if it were some ancient ghost to be feared says a lot about you, though.

[johnu]

andrei, on 2019-February-07, 18:44, said:

John, reality strikes hard.

Are you too ignorant to know what happened to end the showdown? Apparently so. Is Fox Propaganda saying that Dennison won the government shutdown battle?

Dennison agreed to reopen the government under the same agreement that Congress had agreed to before the start of the shutdown. He got zero concessions from Democrats and only caused millions of people great harm by closing the government for more than a month. If you think that's a success, you are even more despicable than I can imagine.

andrei, on 2019-February-07, 18:44, said:

So who scored the knockdown?
Nancy better get to her flight quick, she might not be allowed to board a week from now.

Dennison was knocked down, took a standing 8 count and was saved by the bell. The next round hasn't even started so we'll see what happens in a week. Anybody who is rooting for another government shutdown is a sick and demented head case.

[johnu]

Chas_DoesntCareIfHeEmbarrassesHimself, on 2019-February-07, 19:46, said:

...

[johnu]

andrei, on 2019-February-07, 18:35, said:

How can one not love this plan?
Ocasio-Cortez's Green New Deal offers 'economic security' for those 'unwilling to work'

Genius.

You don't like one part of an overview that isn't a part of the overall Green New Deal. Not everybody will agree with every goal. Given your obvious ability to parse out the important details and articulate them in a clear concise manner, what else do you think is wrong with this plan?

[barmar]

hrothgar, on 2019-February-06, 10:15, said:

Why does anyone actually care how well the ACA polls?

1. Looking at polls in isolation is meaningless. As a rule, medical care in the US polls extremely extremely unpopularly, especially amongst anyone who needs to use it who has anything but a Cadillac plan. People hate what they have, people hate any viable option, and they only thing that the average voter actually likes is "Give me everything for free and make sure to screw over the blacks"

2. I would think that recent experiences with, say, Brexit or the election of Trump show the perils of putting to great faith in voice of the hoi poloi.

Obsessing over small shifts in polls over time seems like an exercise in frustration...

Exactly. I'll bet the Civil Rights Bill didn't poll well, either. This is why we have a representative democracy rather than a straight democracy -- ideally we're supposed to elect smart people who know what's best for everyone. Polling the American public is like parents giving children a vote on whether to go to school or when would be an appropriate bedtime. Unfortunately, we now also have children running the house -- it's like that Star Trek episode where they find a planet where all the adults had died.

Not to mention that the ACA had some clear problems that made it hard for it to poll well. The compromises that were necessary to get it to pass meant that it wasn't really the health care reform that most people really wanted. Dems wanted a single-payer system, ACA isn't that. GOP doesn't like creating more entitlements, but how can you have anything even remotely like universal health care without them? Given the political climate, if we waited for a perfect bill that everyone loved (if such thing is even possible) we'd get nothing. You can't let perfect be the enemy of good, and something is better than nothing.

We want lots of things: universal health care, great schools, better environment, reducing poverty, etc. But "read my lips, no new taxes." TANSTAAFL.

[johnu]

barmar, on 2019-February-08, 00:28, said:

Exactly. I'll bet the Civil Rights Bill didn't poll well, either. This is why we have a representative democracy rather than a straight democracy -- ideally we're supposed to elect smart people who know what's best for everyone. Polling the American public is like parents giving children a vote on whether to go to school or when would be an appropriate bedtime. Unfortunately, we now also have children running the house -- it's like that Star Trek episode where they find a planet where all the adults had died.

What was very sad was that seniors (65+) were those least in support of the ACA. A lot of seniors don't like any change, even if the change doesn't affect them, since most will be on Medicare and aren't affected by private insurance at all (except Medigap and Advantage plans which are integrated with Medicare and are very highly regulated).

As far as Medicare for all, Medicare is one of the most popular programs ever implemented by our government.

Medicare as Reflected in Public Opinion

69% of those age 18-64 had a favorable view of Medicare. 21% had an unfavorable view. Among those 65+, 88% had a favorable view, 7% had an unfavorable view. Those are amazingly high favorable ratings.

In many ways, ACA is less than the sum of its parts. Although Republicans have no problem in voting to get rid of the ban on pre-existing conditions, parent keeping adult children on their health plan, etc, most people have seen the light.

14,065 viewsJun 24, 2018, 09:00am Poll: 66% Of Voters Oppose Trump DOJ's Move To Gut Patient Protections
And of the 66% who disapprove gutting ACA, 47% strongly disapprove.

Why doesn't the Senate schedule another vote on repealing the ACA?

[johnu]

For those Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez haters, this will make your heads explode. From a committee meeting on campaign financing:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Exposes The Dark Side Of Politics In 5 Incredible Minutes

I'm pretty sure the President she refers to is not the previous president, but the current president.

[Winstonm]

Quote

A joint drug bust between Australian and U.S. authorities in mid-January resulted in a record 1.7 tons of methamphetamine being seized at Los Angeles/Long Beach seaport.

Build that underwater seawall!

[andrei]

johnu, on 2019-February-08, 00:00, said:

Are you too ignorant to know what happened to end the showdown? Apparently so. Is Fox Propaganda saying that Dennison won the government shutdown battle?

Dennison agreed to reopen the government under the same agreement that Congress had agreed to before the start of the shutdown. He got zero concessions from Democrats and only caused millions of people great harm by closing the government for more than a month. If you think that's a success, you are even more despicable than I can imagine.


Dennison was knocked down, took a standing 8 count and was saved by the bell. The next round hasn't even started so we'll see what happens in a week. Anybody who is rooting for another government shutdown is a sick and demented head case.

John, stop parroting what you read/hear-on-TV and start thinking for yourself for once.

How could anybody think Nancy won anything is beyond me: DT can still shut down the government in a week, he got his SOTU address.
This might change and you can claim victory in future, but for now it is premature.

And, BTW, nobody is rooting for another government shutdown. Some are rooting for a wall/barrier.
People who think others are rooting for another government shutdown are the sick ones.

[andrei]

johnu, on 2019-February-08, 00:13, said:

what else do you think is wrong with this plan?

It is very hard to take seriously a plan which states that:

"Upgrade or replace every building in US for state-of-the-art energy efficiency."
"Build out high-speed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary"

After the plan is implemented, Americans will be swimming to Cuba or hiking to Canada/Mexico (now I see why you oppose a border wall, ports of entry won't be enough for all Americans willing to travel abroad)

[Winstonm]

From Raw Story and the latest in the Manafort actions concerning the SCO and Manafort's alleged failure to adhere to his plea agreement:

Quote

At another point in the transcript, a prosecutor tells the judge that one of Manafort’s motives for lying to investigators about something he told to Rick Gates, another former Trump aide who is cooperating in the probe, was that he was trying to “augment his chances for a pardon.” (NBC News noted that the transcript appears to incorrectly attribute this remark to one of Manafort’s lawyers, when it is, in fact, clearly a prosecutor speaking.)

This is the first time the special counsel has indicated publicly that it thinks a witness or target in the investigation might be angling for a pardon. Many have speculated that the pursuit of a pardon could explain Manafort’s otherwise puzzling behavior.

But since a pardon for federal crimes could only come from the president, the special counsel’s acknowledge of this possible motive is remarkable. It means the special counsel believes Manafort could increase his chances of a pardon by with a criminal lie. This, quite directly, implies that Trump has an interest in one of his former aides engaging in a criminal cover-up — a circumstance that is hard to imagine unless the president himself is at least indirectly implicated in criminal behavior.

Comments?

[Chas_P]

Winstonm, on 2019-February-07, 20:35, said:

I have no fear of the quotations or the ideas of Karl Marx. The fact that you raise the spectre as if it were some ancient ghost to be feared says a lot about you, though.

I was agreeing with you Winston that "trying to provide a better economic environment for everyone is a worthy goal." And the GND aims to provide "economic security" for all who are "unable or unwilling" to work. So don't worry. Those who ARE able and willing will carry the load. Some other highly-sensible proposals in the GND are the complete elimination of air travel and 99% of cars. Of course this means that 1000's of autoworkers and airline employees would become unemployed. Here again there are no worries because the GND also promises to provide every single American with a job that includes a “family-sustaining wage, family and medical leave, vacations, and a pension.” So those unemployed autoworkers and airline employees could immediately be put back to work (assuming they are able and willing) killing off the cattle herds thereby eliminating cow farts which we all know are a major cause of global warming. It all makes perfect sense.

[y66]

Quote of the day:

Quote

I never expected to see Jeff Bezos emerge as a hero of democracy. But he has. A profile in moral courage. -- Paul Krugman

[johnu]

andrei, on 2019-February-08, 10:51, said:

John, stop parroting what you read/hear-on-TV and start thinking for yourself for once.

Coming from a Fox Propaganda puppet, that's rich

andrei, on 2019-February-08, 10:51, said:

How could anybody think Nancy won anything is beyond me: DT can still shut down the government in a week, he got his SOTU address.

That would be almost everybody who isn't being paid by the White House to put out spin. Are you incapable of following the simplistic stories on Fox? Dennison reopened the government by signing essentially the same short term appropriations bill he could have signed a month before. And then he could have given his address at the original scheduled time. President Coulter said of Dennison, "Good news for George Herbert Walker Bush: As of today, he is no longer the biggest wimp ever to serve as President of the United States."

andrei, on 2019-February-08, 10:51, said:

This might change and you can claim victory in future, but for now it is premature.

You almost got something correct. The last battle is over. The next battle, if any, is over the next spending bill. And there will be many more battles in the next 2 years, assuming Dennison hasn't been impeached and removed from office before then.

Quote

And, BTW, nobody is rooting for another government shutdown. Some are rooting for a wall/barrier.
People who think others are rooting for another government shutdown are the sick ones.

Hmmm, you seemed positively giddy about Dennison grounding Pelosi's transportation during a possible shutdown next week. I guess you know more about yourself than you think. And President Coulter and many others are still steaming because Dennison caved and reopened the government. You should be more respectful of President Coulter.

[Winstonm]

Chas_P, on 2019-February-08, 12:13, said:

I was agreeing with you Winston that "trying to provide a better economic environment for everyone is a worthy goal." And the GND aims to provide "economic security" for all who are "unable or unwilling" to work. So don't worry. Those who ARE able and willing will carry the load. Some other highly-sensible proposals in the GND are the complete elimination of air travel and 99% of cars. Of course this means that 1000's of autoworkers and airline employees would become unemployed. Here again there are no worries because the GND also promises to provide every single American with a job that includes a “family-sustaining wage, family and medical leave, vacations, and a pension.” So those unemployed autoworkers and airline employees could immediately be put back to work (assuming they are able and willing) killing off the cattle herds thereby eliminating cow farts which we all know are a major cause of global warming. It all makes perfect sense.

Again, you keep exposing your ass and no one wants to look.

[johnu]

andrei, on 2019-February-08, 10:57, said:

It is very hard to take seriously a plan which states that:

"Upgrade or replace every building in US for state-of-the-art energy efficiency."
"Build out high-speed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary"

Oh Andrei. Nobody would ever accuse you of being a visionary and innovator.

Current building codes in many parts of the country mandate better and better energy efficiency compared to older building codes. Higher required R ratings for insulation, better weather sealing, better furnaces and air conditioning, etc. Remodeling in most areas require upgrading to current building codes in the remodeled areas. Many commercial buildings are already being remodeled to be more energy efficient because it saves money in the long run. Currently, many buildings are already being built to LEED standards.

Realistically, it's not economical to retrofit every building in the US in the short term, but as a goal, why wouldn't you want to aim high, not low?

As for high speed rail travel that replaces planes for domestic flights, have you not heard about the hyperloop train (and competing ideas like mag-lev trains which are getting closer to 400 MPH in tests)?

Elon Musk's hyperloop dream may come true — and soon

Quote

Ultimately, hyperloop developers aim to develop systems that will move pods along at speeds of up to 760 miles per hour.

By way of comparison, commercial planes cruise at less than 600 miles per hour.

Hyperloop (and mag-lev) started out as more science fiction than science fact, but technology is starting to catch up with theory. Don't be intentionally stupid. Do some research on your own and don't repeat right fringe talking points.

andrei, on 2019-February-08, 10:57, said:

After the plan is implemented, Americans will be swimming to Cuba or hiking to Canada/Mexico (now I see why you oppose a border wall, ports of entry won't be enough for all Americans willing to travel abroad)

Last I heard, you can still get to Canada and Mexico by car (and some old fashioned trains) unless the flat earth people have rewritten the maps. No reason they can't implement the same advanced rail systems that the US may be building. If not, believe it or not, the Green New Deal sponsors consulted with actual experts in various related fields and I'm sure they noticed that Canada and Mexico may not adopt advanced rail options as soon as the US and that on various maps that there are vast stretches of water separating different parts of the world.

[Chas_P]

Winstonm, on 2019-February-08, 15:48, said:

Again, you keep exposing your ass and no one wants to look.

Oh darn! Now you've hurt my feelings. I may have to seek a safe space.

[kenberg]

y66, on 2019-February-08, 13:15, said:

Quote of the day:

I never expected to see Jeff Bezos emerge as a hero of democracy. But he has. A profile in moral courage. -- Paul Krugman

I have found all this stuff with Bezos and The Enquirer confusing. PBS Newshour had a brief discussion:
https://www.pbs.org/...-are-a-big-deal

Bezos, Pecker, Michael Cohen, Trump, all in the same story. Maybe the four of them should sit down for a few hands of bridge.A crocodile coup is likely.

[y66]

kenberg, on 2019-February-08, 20:30, said:

I have found all this stuff with Bezos and The Enquirer confusing. PBS Newshour had a brief discussion:
https://www.pbs.org/...-are-a-big-deal

This story has some of the elements of the Peter Thiel Gawker takedown story which Gawker started by invading Thiel's privacy and Thiel finished by bankrolling Hulk Hogan's invasion of privacy lawsuit that bankrupted Gawker except in Bezos' case, he is Thiel and Hogan combined and he has two adversaries not one: the Enquirer and Trump. Bezos also has a formidable security team working on this headed by Gavin De Becker to whom he has given "whatever budget he needs to pursue the facts of the matter".