[Liversidge]

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We play Acol and the weak No Trump. In Acol a 3♣ response shows a very distributive hand with good clubs and slam potential, asking partner to cue bid for controls. This hand has only 15 HCP. I have added 3 points for the void (I would add 5 points if the void was in dummy), which makes 18 points plus 12-14 in partner's hand, making 30 -32 points, putting it in possible slam range. Should I bid 3NT or bid 3♣ asking partner to cue bid? And if he responds 3♥ which shows a wasted heart value in a club contract but a little comfort for a No Trump contract, should I settle for 3NT and cross fingers and toes, or just bid 5♣ directly, as further cue bidding seems pointless?

[Cyberyeti]

Many people will have a system bid for this to show both minors (either with longer clubs or with short hearts depending on style) or be able to transfer to clubs then bid diamonds. Since partner can have a 13 count and 13 tricks can be almost laydown (Ax, xxxx, AQxx, K10x) I think you have to investigate.

I'd start with 3♣ given your methods.

[Vampyr]

I would start with 3♣ too. I wouldn't consider this hand as two-suited as Cyberyeti does, but surely you have 2♠ or 2NT as a single-suited minor-suit bust or 2-suited slam try?

[Cyberyeti]

 Vampyr, on 2015-September-09, 05:05, said:

I would start with 3♣ too. I wouldn't consider this hand as two-suited as Cyberyeti does, but surely you have 2♠ or 2NT as a single-suited minor-suit bust or 2-suited slam try?

The method I play (via 2♠) partner would show me 4 diamonds if he had them immediately in response, so I'll treat it as essentially one suited if he fails to do that telling partner I'm 4-6+.

Note that opposite Axx, xxxx, AQxx, Kx you want to be in diamonds not clubs as if the diamonds split, you don't then need to take the spade finesse for 13. It's also much easier to find the diamond Q if they're trumps.

Over 1N-3♣-3♥ I'd probably give up in 3N at MPs where 5♣= will often lose to 3N+1 or playing beginners' methods where asking for aces will take me beyond 5♣ and won't distinguish whether partner has the A♥ (unless you only cue aces).

[helene_t]

Suppose partner bids 3♥. He has 12 points more often than 13 and probably he has at least 5 points in hearts if your agreement is that 3♥ shows a concentration of values (notrump probe). So let's say that he has about half of the 15 remaning points outside hearts.In other words, we are missing two or three of the five critical cards (♠AQ, ♦AQ, ♣K). Let's say we have 50% chance of missing each of them.

♠A: Always a loser if we miss it so this is 0.5 expected loser.
♠Q: If we miss it we need a finese or maybe he has a doubleton or maybe opps give the double finesse away on the lead or maybe the spade loser goes away on the hearts. Let's say 0.1 expected loser.
♦A: always a loser if we miss it so 0.5.
♦Q: If we miss it we probably need a finesse, let's say 0.2 loser.
♣K: If we miss it we need the finesse, 0.25 loser.

This adds up to 1.55 losers in total. So I would think that if we have to make a pure guess I would sign off in 3NT. Partner should have a double stopper in hearts and his 3♥ bid might scare them from leading a heart so I think 3nt is better than 5♣.

But 6♣ has obviously plenty of chances so if you have a way to elicit some useful information I would go for it. If for example 4♣ asks for keycards for clubs then I would use that and then sign off in 4nt if he has two keycard but bid slam if he has three*. First-round cuebidding style would work also: if he shows first round controls in both diamonds and spades you can bid slam.

*Edit: This is maybe a bit silly since opener should bid on over our 3NT anyway if he has three keycards. So maybe the best approach is simply to bid 3NT and hope that partner can take it from there.

This is a good principle: if you have a diffcult decision to make, consider if it might be better to help partner make the decision. 3♣ followed by 3NT after partner's 3♥ bid, doesn't it say "I have a slam try in club but your 3♥ bid cooled my interest down?". If so, it gives partner a good idea about the kind of hand you have.

This post has been edited by helene_t: 2015-September-09, 07:05

[Tramticket]

Three clubs for now, let's see what partner or LHO bids. (I wouldn't be surprised to hear a three heart bid on my left).

[Vampyr]

 Cyberyeti, on 2015-September-09, 05:22, said:

The method I play (via 2♠) partner would show me 4 diamonds if he had them immediately in response, so I'll treat it as essentially one suited if he fails to do that telling partner I'm 4-6+.

I doubt that the OP has this available, but he may have 2NT available as a minor-suit single-suited bust or 2-suited slam try.

[wank]

 Liversidge, on 2015-September-09, 04:14, said:

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We play Acol and the weak No Trump. In Acol a 3♣ response shows a very distributive hand with good clubs and slam potential, asking partner to cue bid for controls.

yes bid 3 clubs. you would often go down in 3nt with 6 clubs cold if you just bid that.

if partner turns up with lots of heart wastage, it's probably safer to play 3nt. losing 3 tricks is not very difficult. unfortunately, your system isn't very good here. 3c as natural GF is old fashioned and perhaps not very efficient, but perfectly workable. however, over that 3x by partner shouldn't be a cuebid - you have all the 4 level available to cue - it should show a concentration of values to make decisions like this one easier.

it seems from your wording that you think your methods are normal, but remember that acol is only a very basic opening structure with many options for continuations and auction development, the most basic and least useful of which being the ones favoured by teachers.